Delta: latest updates and discussion

[Grey Waves]

I’ve been meaning to make this post for like, the last 2 weeks, but real life got in the way. I’ve got a few suggestions I’d like to make now that we’re post-Scapecon and OHS 48 is nearing its conclusion.

Marro Drones: 50 --> 55 points

There’s a reason why I suggested to Boromir that he run Drones x8, Raelin SOTM for his VC Delta army. Drones average 4.8 attacks of 3 per turn at 50 points a squad, which is significantly higher than the majority of other units can achieve for that price. The only really difficult matchups they have are against other 5+ attack per turn squads like the blades, monks or romans, but even then, if the drones have a hot d20, they can still easily crush each of these armies. A 5 point nerf will mean that the build will typically cost between 30-35 points more to run, which should be sufficient, especially since they’re only really viable in formats that have a figure limit > 18.


Blade Gruts: 50 --> 55 points

Boromir reckons that Necroblade’s Blades x4, Grimnak, Nerak, Kuthnak army was the net strongest army in the VC Delta event, and I’m inclined to agree. Being able to throw 3 attacks of (at least 2), chomp a unit, and have access to an additional whirlwind attack of 3 (sometimes 4!) all on the same turn is simply wonderful. I don’t think it’s just Kuthnak builds that are the issue though – according to Necroblade, the only game that he played where Kuthnak had a major impact was actually against Boromir (it’s very hard to deny 3+ whirlwind attacks when you have 23 squad figures). I think just in general, the combination of 4 attacks of 2+ plus chomp is a touch too good for a 50-point squad of 4 (even when you factor in Grimnak’s 135 point price tag), and a 5 point increase would help to make the army a touch fairer, particularly against opposing melee builds.


Martial La Hire: 50 --> 60 points

Not much to say here besides this guy is too cheap compared to the other filler options around his point value. 5/4 defences combined with a double attack of 4 is really good for 50 points, and currently I don’t see a reason to draft any of the other 50 point filler heroes instead of him except maybe Swaysil. 60 points puts him at the same cost as figures like Sam Brown and Cal, which feels about right.


Shadow Binder: 25 --> 20 points, Shadow Fiend: 35 --> 30 points, Shadow Hound: 35 --> 30 points

I played Shiftrex in Round 4 of the current OHS season, and I was shocked to discover that despite the very high point limit the season featured, he was only able to afford 12 shadows plus Xundar in his build. Shadows are not that good, even in delta, and something is clearly amiss when even at 555 points you can barely fit the equivalent of 4 copies of a 3-man common squad. Dropping the cost of each of the 3 shadows by 5 points would effectively allow players to include an extra 2-3 shadows in their armies, which seems a lot fairer overall considering the build’s several weaknesses.

And finally, for probably my most controversial nomination…


Nilfheim: 220 --> 200 points

Yes, I know that I’m proposing a 20 point cut to one of the most powerful figures in the game. At the same time however, not a single person brought Nilfheim to any of the delta OHS seasons or to either event at Scapecon. The thing that seems to have been overlooked is that Nilfheim’s 2 best support options, Greenscales and Raelin, have both gotten significantly more expensive in delta. Nilf, Greenscales x3, Raelin now costs 550 points, which means that if you want to run Nilfheim you only really have 3 different options. You can run Nilf + Greenscales with no Raelin, which is not very good, Nilf + Raelin but no Greenscales, which is better but then you only have about 160 points left for a secondary offensive option or a screen, or Nilf + a different common squad entirely, which is probably your best option. Even if you do decide to go for the latter option however, 220 points is still a very high amount to pay for a figure with 6/4 defensive stats (since you’re not running Raelin). I think that a 20 point price cut would make each of the 3 builds I mentioned (Nilfheim + Greenscales, Nilfheim + Raelin, or Nilfheim + a different common squad) a much more attractive option, while not significantly affecting the viability of Nilf + Greenscales + Raelin builds, since the army remains quite expensive even for delta pricing.

[Chris Perkins]

Some individual thoughts, as promised.

Originally Posted by Grey Waves

Marro Drones: 50 --> 55 points

Not much to say here except we agreed with you; thanks for suggesting this one. I was one of the casualties of Boromir's Drones x8, Raelin [SotM] army at ScapeCon II. Just wish we did this one last update

Originally Posted by Grey Waves

Blade Gruts: 50 --> 55 points

As dok discussed in his post, we had already decided to bump Grimnak instead of the Blades. Basically, we wanted to try and allow for non-Grimnak versions of the army to be relatively comparable / viable, hence the Tornak decrease as well.

Originally Posted by Grey Waves

Martial La Hire: 50 --> 60 points

On this one, we just disagree. Martial has strong base stats, but a single attacking mele hero just has so much intrinsic limitations. Also, having your army be 50 points light just to fit him end for an end-game role (hoping he isn't facing a ranged squad) is pretty risky to begin with, so I just don't think he's super viable unless you just REALLY want to play something that's naturally 50 points light. And I'm ok with him getting included in that scenario.

Originally Posted by Grey Waves

Shadow Binder: 25 --> 20 points, Shadow Fiend: 35 --> 30 points, Shadow Hound: 35 --> 30 points

We ended up bumping Xundar down instead to create a more consistent bump to the shadow army (i.e. your bump makes them way stronger at 600 points, but not much stronger at 400 points, whereas the Xundar change just lets them get basically 1 more shadow at any point level). This change and the semi-corresponding Kurrok change were spurred by your post, so thanks for starting that discussion.

Originally Posted by Grey Waves

Nilfheim: 220 --> 200 points

This was another one where we had already made a corresponding change; Greenscale Warriors down to 65. I like that move better because it lets some of the other Dragons be a little more viable while also making the top-tier Nilf army a little more affordable. This alternative change does make running Nilf without GWs harder, but that ended up being a trade-off with making other Dragons more viable instead.

Those are my case-by-case thoughts, at least.

[UtahScott]

Still dipping my toes in Delta. Help me know when updates should drop so I know when to expect an update. The OP says every four months, so December, April, August? But April's update was in fact June?

[Chris Perkins]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

Still dipping my toes in Delta. Help me know when updates should drop so I know when to expect an update. The OP says every four months, so December, April, August? But April's update was in fact June?

The goal is to drop an update every 4 months, but yes, we haven't hit that schedule perfectly. Hitting each 4 months is still the ideal goal though.

There are a few reasons we might deviate though, 2 of which are:
1) Proximity to a major tournament (i.e. ScapeCon). We'd ideally not drop new points within a month or so before such a tourney.
2) Number of pending releases. If we have a ton of pending changes, it can make sense to drop a little early to avoid any one update being too overwhelming.

[UtahScott]

Makes sense. If you start counting from the beginning of the year, that's enough lead time to give a few months before ScapeCon--and you could update everything after people recover from GenCon. Thanks for the extra info.