The Book of Jinx

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Karat

I'd actually argue that it does affect SAs as you are not modifying the SA but rather causing the dice used in the attack to be rerolled.

I concur. Her power only (potentially) changes the results of the SA, not how the SA works in any way at all.

[MrNobody]

From Brainiac's page;

12TH LEVEL INTELLECT
After any attack dice, defense dice, or the 20-sided die is rolled for Brainiac or any figure within clear sight of Brainiac, you may immediately remove an "X" Order Marker from this card and add or subtract a skull, shield, blank, or 1 from that roll.

Q - Can I use Brainiac's 12th Level Intellect special power to alter the results of a special attack, leaving engagement attack, or any other special power that rolls attack dice?
A - Per the official rules, special attacks cannot be modified by other special powers, including this one. However, 12th level intellect can absolutely be used to alter the results of any normal attack, leaving engagement attack or special power. Just remember that special attacks cannot be modified by any other special power, including this one.

I get the logic in what you guys are saying, but it doesn't look like that's the precedent that's been used before.

[Yodaking]

Similar effect here on Count Vertigo that specifically mentions SA's:

VERTIGO EFFECT
When an opponent's figure within 6 clear sight spaces of Count Vertigo targets any figure with a special attack, you may first roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 10 or higher, the opponent's figure cannot attack this turn.

Also on Count Vertigo, we already allow SA's to be modified by another Special Power:

NULLIFY
Opponent's figures within 6 clear sight spaces of Count Vertigo subtract 3 from their Range number, to a minimum of 1. Prior to moving, if an opponent's figures is within 6 clear sight spaces of Count Vertigo, it cannot use the Flying or Stealth Flying special power.

Nullify also affects all special attacks - (Taken directly from the Count Vertigo's SP).

[Karat]

Seems like we have been slightly inconsistent. I'd be for altering that FAQ as it makes the most logical sense.

[Yodaking]

Looks to me like whoever wrote that FAQ for Brainiac got it wrong. Special Powers are suppose to 'break' the rules.

[Yodaking]

Looks like Count Vertigo was made 3 years before Brainiac 13, so Brainiac 13 was the one that changed course on things.

[MrNobody]

I don't really think Vertigo Effect is the same. It changes whether or not your opponent can attack, while Jinx Field messes with the dice themself.

I see where it says that about Nullify in the SP, but honestly I think that raises more questions than it answers. So the implication is that Nullify can subtract from the range of SAs as well, but that goes totally against the "normal" rules and isn't clarified on the card itself or in the FAQ, but instead in a random conversational line in the SP?

And tbh, I'm not totally sold on basing my understanding of the rules on a single sentence from Bats almost 10 years ago. It even looks like maybe he just misspoke and meant that Vertigo Effect affects Special Attacks, given the way the FAQ was updated.

[japes]

FWIW, The intent of the official rule is to not allow S.A. to be boosted. And Brainiac is potentially boosting a S.A. Or change the results. Jinx however doesn't alter it, it pretends it didn't happen in the first place and the attack happens again.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by japes

FWIW, The intent of the official rule is to not allow S.A. to be boosted. And Brainiac is potentially boosting a S.A. Or change the results. Jinx however doesn't alter it, it pretends it didn't happen in the first place and the attack happens again.

See I'd argue that Brainiac is just doing the same thing. Hes saying see this skull it never occured.

[Yodaking]

Another 2010 design, Scarlet Witch.


HEX-SPHERE DISTURBANCE 5
After an opponent rolls attack dice against Scarlet Witch, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or higher, your opponent must re-roll all attack dice that show skulls. Hex-Sphere Disturbance can be used only once for each attack.

• Q: Can Scarlet Witch use Hex-sphere Disturbance 5 against Leaving Engagement Attacks?
  
• A: No. The wording "attack dice" is meant to signify either a normal or special attack and excludes Leaving Engagement Attacks.

[MrNobody]

I mean technically that’s not saying she can re-roll special attacks, it’s just a definition of what “attack dice” are. But I do see how it could lead to the conclusion that she could do that.

I clearly can’t say that no design was ever made with the intention for it to affect special attacks. Obviously Jinx was. But to my understanding of the rules, SAs have always been designed to be “not modifiable.” And the reason for that is because one of the main reasons SAs exist is to allow you to do “weird stuff” like combined attacks and attacks that affect multiple figures without worrying about all the baggage that comes with stat bonuses/subtractions, etc.

[johnny139]

I think it's a pretty clear division whether "cannot be modified" includes rerolling dice, and I don't think it's been definitively answered during my tenure - I've always assumed (like Nobody) that they can't be, but that's just intuition and hasn't been ruled on.