The Book of Two-Face (II)

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

The only one that comes immediately to mind, is broader boosts rather than going the attack route, which is hard to top. Something like Good = +1 Defense -1 Attack/Scarred = + 1 Attack -1 Defense. We could also mix in something else thematic for each side, to play up the theme a bit further such as OM management/Initiative etc.

I agree that once we decide on frequency we should revisit. You may be onto something with the above though. Sort of like reckless assault on the scarred side and a defensive posture on the good side. Both useful but different.

You could do the +1 attack for one side and the bonding for the other. Both pro attack which would be the "stronger" phase usually but just different.

As for OM management. We could always just give him a Criminal Contingency plan full time as his other power.

[Ronin]

I feel like the nature of the benefit he offers should be nailed down before the frequency of the flip. What you want from the latter might change depending on the former. I would actually sideline the frequency discussion until you have Good/Scarred benefits that you're totally happy with.

[Arkham]

Well we've gotten a fair amount of votes thus far, so we can put it on hold. Like I said, any ideas on the benefits, I'm all ears. I'd certainly like to nail that down as you said, and know what we're dealing with. I like what we have currently, but that's not to say there's not a better set of benefits that will reduce the impact of the flip from resulting in "yay I love this benefit!" to "man, I can't wait to get the scarred side again". If both sides were equally helpful but in different fashions, less dependence is placed on the flipping.

[Yodaking]

After thinking about it some, this is where I'm at concerning coin flip frequency as it relates to overall game play.

C > A > B > D

However, I agree with Ronin that the final coin side benefits could change my thinking as different effects may be made better or worse by flipping the coin at specific times in the round.

[Arkham]

I've mulled it over all day, and here's what I've come up with:

COIN FLIP DUALITY
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Two-Face, flip the Two-Face coin and place the face-up result on this card. You may then take a turn with one Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure you control that is within 5 clear sight spaces of Two-Face.

• If the Good Side is face-up on this card, Two-Face cannot attack during his turn.
• If the Scarred Side is face-up on this card, Two-Face cannot move during his turn.

Once per round, after flipping the Two-Face coin, you may flip the Two-Face coin one additional time.

CRIMINAL TACTICS
If a Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure you control is adjacent to Two-Face, and the Good Side of the Two-Face coin is face-up on this card, Two-Face cannot be attacked. After a Crime Lord or Criminal rolls defense dice, you may move up to 2 Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figures you control up to 2 spaces each.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Two-Face attacks, he may attack one additional time.

[TrollBrute]

There's a lot going on and I'd want to trim the second part of Criminal Tactics, but I'm okay with the direction. I really worry that it won't get the more reliable Two-Face that you want. You have the once-per-round re-flip, but you could still get stuck with a couple of bad rolls and not get to move out Two-Face at all. He's also sort of an unreliable Kingpin at that point. If you're cool with it though, I'm willing to see it to testing.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

There's a lot going on and I'd want to trim the second part of Criminal Tactics, but I'm okay with the direction. I really worry that it won't get the more reliable Two-Face that you want. You have the once-per-round re-flip, but you could still get stuck with a couple of bad rolls and not get to move out Two-Face at all. He's also sort of an unreliable Kingpin at that point. If you're cool with it though, I'm willing to see it to testing.

We could always reorganize it a tad, to regain a bit of reliability:

COIN FLIP DUALITY
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Two-Face, you may then take a turn with one Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure you control that is within 5 clear sight spaces of Two-Face. If you do, flip the Two-Face coin and place the face-up result on this card.

• If the Good Side is face-up on this card, Two-Face cannot attack during his turn.
• If the Scarred Side is face-up on this card, Two-Face cannot move during his turn.

Once per round, after flipping the Two-Face coin, you may flip the Two-Face coin one additional time.

This makes the coin toss tied specifically to if you take the additional turn with another figure. So it's not making or breaking his solo turns.

The thing this direction gets right:

1. Two-Face is the one affected by the coin toss rather than his entire team.
2. The Good Side is directly tied to giving Two-Face a good degree of survivability on the front lines, which makes it a great trade off.
3. The Scarred Side allows you to get 2 attacks with Two-Face, and a full turn with a figure within 5 clear sight spaces.
4. The once per round re-flip gives you another chance in a pinch.

[Arkham]

Ok, I think I've finally settled on what I feel is best for the design. It addresses just about every issue that has arisen from everyone that has chimed in.

CHAOTIC LEADERSHIP
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Two-Face, you may take a turn with one friendly Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure. Before moving with Two-Face, flip the Two-Face coin, and place the face-up result on this card. Once per round, immediately after flipping the Two-Face coin, you may flip the Two-Face coin one additional time.

NO MERCY
If the Scarred Side is face-up on this card, any other Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure adds 1 die to their attack when taking a turn with Chaotic Leadership, and when Two-Face attacks, Two-Face may attack one additional time.

CRIMINAL TACTICIAN
If the Good Side is face-up on this card, all friendly Unique Crime Lord and Criminal figures within 5 clear sight spaces of Two-Face add 1 die to their defense, and if there is at least one friendly Unique Crime Lord or Criminal adjacent to Two-Face, Two-Face cannot be attacked.

1. Coin Flip is based on Two-Face's turns, which is fitting for how it plays in the comics.

2. Requires OM reveal on Two-Face's card, which means no crazy loops with Wrecking Crew etc.

3. No taking additional turn with Squads.

4. Good Side benefit is on par with Scarred Side in terms of importance. It keeps Two-Face alive in the fray as well as providing extra defense for nearby teammates that are essential for his long term survival. Certainly no bummer to land on Good.

5. Scarred Side isn't make or break for Two-Face or his team, it only enhances their threat, rather than defines it. It provides an additional die on attack(only for those taking a turn through Two-Face to avoid nasty combos with Hush/Lex Corp Secuirty etc.) as well as allowing Two-Face his additional attack.

6. The 2 sides offer a nice contrast. Good Side is more defensive and focusing on keeping Two-Face alive while allowing regular attacks. Scarred Side is offensive assault but making Two-Face completely vulnerable to attacks. This makes both results satisfying, and individually useful, which makes the once per round coin re-flip a much more reasonable option based on current need. Do we dial back to keep Two-Face and the team safer, or do we go all in on the offensive?

7. You can play Two-Face as a hang back unit, but not benefit from the AoE defensive boost for your team and his extra attack(s) each turn, to ensure his safety, or you can play him in the field for that AoE defensive boost but risk his safety when vulnerable. Strategic/Tactical options.

8. Overall, it may seem like the card has several benefits, but keep in mind there's only ever 3 actual powers/benefits in play at a time. Taking a turn with another figure + either the 2 Scarred Side benefits OR the 2 Good Side benefits. The design is essentially split into 2 halves.

[johnny139]

I'm happy with that. The wording could probably be cleaned up/shuffled slightly but the direction and execution feels appropriate, fun, and not too complicated.

My only real concern is that, by giving him a full bonding turn rather than an "instead of taking a turn with Two-Face turn," he'll be significantly better at commanding Criminals than he should be, thematically (like, I don't see Two-Face as "outranking" the rest of Gotham's crooks, but if he's a linchpin to Criminal armies he'll seem that way?).

Not necessarily a problem, I'll have to look over our other units and see how he plays before suggesting a change.

[Viegon]

That version seems like even more for your opponent to try to keep track of (since the Good Side "Two-Face can't be attacked" can seriously influence their turns), but I'm willing to see how it plays out.

I am, however, not a fan of the once-per-round extra flip. It doesn't seem thematic at all (does he ever flip the coin, dislike the result, and flip it again in comics?) and feels forced mechanically. Plus it could draw out the game slightly more, since deciding when to use it could slow your turns down.

It should also be limited to Unique Heroes in my opinion. As worded it still works with the Hired Guns (and even limited to Heroes, they can still use their power in place of Two-Face's attack).

Other than that, I'm fine with trying that version.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Viegon

That version seems like even more for your opponent to try to keep track of (since the Good Side "Two-Face can't be attacked" can seriously influence their turns), but I'm willing to see how it plays out.

I am, however, not a fan of the once-per-round extra flip. It doesn't seem thematic at all (does he ever flip the coin, dislike the result, and flip it again in comics?) and feels forced mechanically. Plus it could draw out the game slightly more, since deciding when to use it could slow your turns down.

It should also be limited to Unique Heroes in my opinion. As worded it still works with the Hired Guns (and even limited to Heroes, they can still use their power in place of Two-Face's attack).

Other than that, I'm fine with trying that version.

Actually thematically he has had times where he didn't like the result and he flipped again. Sometimes with the same result and he's angered but he accepts his fate. I think there is at least one issue that ends with him in an infinite loop dissatisfied with the result and he keeps flipping.

[Zettian Juggernaut]

I agree with Viegon, drop the reflip and just make it "Unique Crime Lord or Criminal Hero you control" instead of "friendly Unique Crime Lord or Criminal figure".

Otherwise, it looks pretty reasonable to me, so I would be okay seeing it to testing.