WARHAMMER 40k

[gamjuven]

I love this game, I just wish I knew people around me that play it. I would like to learn how to play. I have tons of armies and such, I just enjoy the modelling prospect. Not into the whole painting but whatever.

Anybody from Pittsburgh, PA that would like to get together for a game or 2?

[Heroscaper90]

i play eldar i run my own club at collage and we love apocolypse

im collecting a eldar army with demons in it here's the story behind them:

When Abbadon the dispoler retreated into the warp uthwe sent a strike force into the warp. They were confrunted by Slaanesh and gave them a chance to work for chaos. They accepted and left Uthwe and became know as the Slaanesh prince's

[eric.dunfee]

Question for you 40K players.

I've known about the game for a very long time, but never checked it out.

I have a friend that used to play a few years back. He has been trying to get us into 40K lately. A few weeks back when we were playing heroscape one saturday, he was talking up 40K again, he basically equated heroscape to checkers, and 40K to chess.

This friend of mine was fairly hardcore about heroscape when we first started playing, but would get frustrated easily because some of us spent more time researching armies and strategies which would repeatedly lead to defeat on his part (he is not a big fan of losing.) He finally got frustrated enough to sell me all of his heroscape. He still plays every once in a while, and enjoys it if he is winning, but I doubt he will ever spend money on the game again.

40K really does sound interesting, so we decided to go check it out at a local game store where some of the locals meet every sunday to play.

After spending a good 3 hours there yesterday watching them play, and really enjoying myself by the way, I can see why he would compare the two games that way. There seems to be large amounts of time devoted to creating the initial armies. The ability to be able to customize individual units in a squad seems very cool. I am definately attracted to the painting and customs portion of it. Some would say that it can be a huge money pit, however if you are patient enough, anything can be bought off of ebay for a decent price. All of these things combined look to make 40K a "thinking man's game"

BUT

There is just one thing I could not get past. Maybe it's the players, maybe it's the latest rule book, I really don't know, but to me it this "thinking man's game" looked suprisingly like those old images you see of the way they fought when guns were first invented and not very accurate: Everyone stands in a straigt line, and shoots at eachother. No strategy, no thinking. How hard could it be to strategize your attack when you get to move and attack with your entire army? The units didn't seem to be very mobile, they had some buildings, which did come into play a little, but not much.

So what am I missing here? Heroscape can be played with very guerilla like tactics, run and gun, staying behind cover, forcing your enemy to move out. I really didn't see this at all.

Again, the game really does look like it can be great fun, I'm just not so sure on what I'm missing.

[bad_calvin]

I played 40k years ago. I had played 40k since the time of rogue trader.

The comparison that Heroscape is like checkers and 40k like chess is not very good (and I find the comparison to be just another GW Drone insult). I would consider Heroscape a more skirmish level game, where 40k is not. A more fair comparison would be that both games are like chess, but with the 40k version of chess you are going to need to cross check all the pieces stats before you move, or have combat.

Since the appeal of 40 k is obvious, I will just tell you what I don't like about it.

I don't like not having alternate activations. I don't like to sit there and wait an hour for my opponent to take their turn. It is like torture, I have to sit there and just watch his whole army move and shoot while I hope I have something left afterwards to retaliate with. There is not much strategy as I know that EVERY one of his unts are going to move and shoot each turn.

I don't like the over complication of rules. If I have to keep 2 to 3 charts plus army lists open to play a game then I am not going to bother. I used to like it, but I don't anymore. I just like having an army list, or card to play. I use to tell myself, well all those charts add realism... they reality is they just make homework.

I don't like expense, I don't like the way they market it as the GW hobby.
I could actually go on, but I won't bother.

The important thing is play what you want and have fun with it. Me, I pass on the GW hobby, I buys some figs still from time to time and use them as proxies in other games.

[jbbnbsmith]

Originally Posted by eric.dunfee

Question for you 40K players.

I've known about the game for a very long time, but never checked it out.

I have a friend that used to play a few years back. He has been trying to get us into 40K lately. A few weeks back when we were playing heroscape one saturday, he was talking up 40K again, he basically equated heroscape to checkers, and 40K to chess.

This friend of mine was fairly hardcore about heroscape when we first started playing, but would get frustrated easily because some of us spent more time researching armies and strategies which would repeatedly lead to defeat on his part (he is not a big fan of losing.) He finally got frustrated enough to sell me all of his heroscape.

The very fact that researching armies and strategies leads to a higher chance of victory sort of negates the whole "HS is checkers 40K is chess" argument. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Unless your friend is really bad at playing checkers but he is good at playing chess, and that's what he was trying to say.

"Heroscape is like checkers because I consistently lose at both of them, while 40K is like chess, which I'm much better at."

[LilNewbie]

Some of the rules from 4th Ed. 40k leave a lot to be desired since they are designed to sell as much product as possible and not meant for good play. For example, you need to have all of your units at maximum size to be able to stand up to the close combat of other units at maximum size since the game uses a form of the Warhammer Fantasy Battles close combat system to simulate close combat. Now that system works fine in a rank-and-file game like Warhammer Fantasy but not that good in a skirmish based game like 40k. The game turns into a mosh-pit in the middle of the board and it leaves little space for tactics. Since you need maximum units, you need to spend a lot more for each unit and you can see how GW thinks by their packaging style. They force you to buy multiple sets to fill out a squad and unless you have extra bits to modify some of the figures in a set, you end up with spare figures that don't fit in squads (due to weapons restricted or required in a squad).

There are some good things in the 4th Ed. ruleset like the army composition rules, the scenarios and some models were eventually released that were only dreamed of in 2nd Ed. (yay, Wave Serpents!!).

We created our own hybrid rules that combined the rules we liked from the 2nd and 4th Editions and we are enjoying 40k again (it was a shame seeing all those cool figures and vehicles not being used due to lame game rules.)

Comparing Heroscape to 40k is not as easy at it appears since both games play completely different from each other. Heroscape is simpler than 40k by far but that does not mean that HS is unchallenging or easy to master. I like both games for different reasons and each one scratches a different gaming itch.

Newb.

[bad_calvin]

Well said Newbie.

As much as I loved Rogue trader, I would have to say that 2nd edition was actually tolerable for me. My only complaint was the "p sy chi c" round. Otherwise I liked it.

When I said I didn't like the marketing, you hit it dead on when you mentioned how they almost force you to purchase a certain amount of miniatures to compete. I just think a miniature game should be miniatures designed around a good mechanic, not a bad mechanic designed to use lots of miniatures.

[LilNewbie]

Thanks! There are times I miss the "Ulitimate" powered Vortex p sychic power just for the carnage it can cause to both armies but I am also glad that the P sychic phase is gone. I do wish P sykers were more useful in 4th edition since it seems they went to the extreme in other direction and neutered them (except Eldar and Slaneesh P sykers).

The rumors about the 5th Edition sound good. I'm just going to wait and see though.

Newb.

[bad_calvin]

Originally Posted by LilNewbie

Thanks! There are times I miss the "Ulitimate" powered Vortex p sychic power just for the carnage it can cause to both armies but I am also glad that the P sychic phase is gone. I do wish P sykers were more useful in 4th edition since it seems they went to the extreme in other direction and neutered them (except Eldar and Slaneesh P sykers).

The rumors about the 5th Edition sound good. I'm just going to wait and see though.

Newb.

A 5th edition? good gawd, these people like their money.
If they would just make the miniatures "matter" again it would make the game fun. When I played 40k, I felt like I could just put the entire unit on one huge base to save time on moving!

[gamjuven]

Originally Posted by bad_calvin

A 5th edition? good gawd, these people like their money.
If they would just make the miniatures "matter" again it would make the game fun. When I played 40k, I felt like I could just put the entire unit on one huge base to save time on moving!

And that's what we call Warhammer ladies and gentelemn, lol. It probably would be a lot easier to just put them all on one base.

[bad_calvin]

Originally Posted by gamjuven

And that's what we call Warhammer ladies and gentelemn, lol. It probably would be a lot easier to just put them all on one base.

As Homer Simpson would say. It's funny because it's true!!

Here are my Heroscape (40k army cards)
Space marines
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgaller....php?album=516

Tau
http://www.heroscapers.com/oldgaller....php?album=517

[LilNewbie]

LOL! Yeah...40k still needs to catch up with WFB which I believe is on it's 6th Edition.

The issue with how they treat squads in 3rd/4th edition was a big dissapointment. In 2nd edition, you actually had more control over what each person did in a squad and Jans moving around in the squad didn't cause Sven to count as moving when he was trying to fire his Heavy Bolter. (We still scratch our heads at what the designers were thinking when they changed that rule in the 3rd/4th editions.)

Newb.