|
|
|||||||
| C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
|
#1
January 26th, 2015, 03:36 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Coolest C3G Designs
Well met!
Favorite C3G designs and the Who is your favorite C3G design? series of polls, the first featuring the top 5 favorite designs of only C3G Heroes, Sidekicks and Allies, and the second polling in alphabetical sets of 10, are the only threads of their type for C3G that I know of. Since they were posted, from 2010-12, a myriad of new C3G units have been introduced. It's time for a new thread on the subject. To mitigate somewhat the inevitable apples and oranges comparisons, I propose that we start by comparing units within chas' Character Levels: Super A: Above 500 points (chas' Levels only go up to 500) A: 351-500 B: 241-350 C: 201-240 D: 10-200 Note: Later in the discussion below, dok suggested this formula: Super A: 430+ (20 designs) A: 350-420 (43) B: 270-340 (64) C: 150-260 (122) D: 10-145 (185), while I came up with my own chart: kolakoski's Arbitrary Character Levels Super A: 381 - 450 A: 331 - 380 B: 241 - 330 C: 151 - 240 D: 10 - 150 I'll be referring to my faves within dok's analysis of C3G armies to further describe my choices.
Note: Used chas' Levels below. Eschewing the most expensive, obvious choices, I'll start the ball rolling with these: Super A: Mephisto  I haven't played with or against many of these super expensive guys in my limited C3G experience. Mephisto is, of course, a "Rock." Very cool mechanics, assuming there is a lot of killing going on around him. A: Gravitron  I used Gravitron fairly recently, to great effect. He is definitely a "Scissors" unit that stops whole armies in their tracks - within 4 spaces. B: Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker)  A relative newcomer, this Scarlet Spider is notable for his "Paper[y]" Spider Stingers (identical to Moon Knight's Crescent Darts except for requiring adjacency) which bypass high Defenses. C: Blade  Another "Paper" unit, with a potential 3 attacks, combining Daywalker with Silver Weapons, Daywalker being another means of bypassing huge Defenses. D: Baron Zemo (Helmut Zemo)  I used him in the same army with Gravitron above. Another "Scissors" unit, in a minor way, but more of an OM manager. His Master Swordplay figured in one of the most memorable dramatic moments of my brief C3G experience, as the Baron leaped off a bridge and attacked and killed Hal Jordan's Green Lantern (only to fall moments later to an attack that would have left him alive but for the Wound he sustained from the leap). Additional Coolness: A: M.O.D.O.K.  Almost used him instead of Gravitron in the aforesaid action. I thought he might be too powerful. A really big "Rock" with a very cool "Scissors" mechanic (Psionic Command). B: Archangel  "Paper" for sure, especially if there are a reasonable number of Normal Attacks. C: X-23  Wolverine's lesser known, female counterpart can be a devastating "Paper" unit - with a little luck. D: Angel (Liam)  This Angel is a "Paper" unit whose usefulness, like Archangel's, is dependent on there being a reasonable number of Normal Attacks. Angel, Archangel, Blade, Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker), and X-23 are all scheduled to appear in the Alien Invitational by Chas. Last edited by kolakoski; January 29th, 2015 at 12:38 PM. 
|
|
#2
January 26th, 2015, 04:15 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Alright, I'll play. Here are my favorites:
Super A: Apocalypse. Really fun Mutant leader unit that also does well in a throwdown. Very fun to build armies around, and something of a Rock/Paper hybrid, I suppose. Other favorites: Mephisto, Starro, and Beyonder A: Enchantress. She lends a lot of utility to figures without much firepower, and can turn multi-attackers into nightmares. Her durability also makes her very reliable. Other favorites: Thor, Loki, Nova Prime, Magneto II, and Allen the Alien B: Ms. Marvel. Really fun in an army with a couple of heavy-hitters, or teamed up with Cap in a larger build. The expansion of Cap's Avengers markers also really blew my mind when I first saw Carol, and I'm still a fan. Other favorites: Scarlet Spider, Star-Lord, Spider-Man, Blue Lantern (Walker), Iron Patriot, Wonder Woman, Black Tarantula, The Thing C: Robot. Easy to throw into generalist armies, and pairs well with units like Captain America and Star-Lord that provide leadership bonuses but not Order Marker management. Very fun/versatile unit. Other favorites: Professor X, Red Skull, Sif, Buffy Summers, Captain America D: Helmut Zemo. Zemo's a great lite version of an OM manager, and general good place to drop an X OM. Very comparable to Robot in the sense that he's good to team up with leaders that can't manage OMs themselves. Zemo's one of my favorite comic characters, and I think this design pretty much nailed it. Other favorites: Skrull Infiltrator, Stepford Cuckoo, J. Jonah Jameson, Mysterio, Batman (Terry), Spider-Girl, Joker I, Blink, Red Arrow, Moon Knight, Shocker, Mystique, Emma Frost, Luke Cage, Angel (Liam), Conan, Oracle, Robin (Dick), Zombie
|
|
#3
January 26th, 2015, 05:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Seems like fun... I haven't been able to go over the C3G universe in a while.
 SUPER A - GALACTUS  Event Heroes can be hard to get right - a lot of times we just use it as "Unique Hero but way tougher." But every now and then you get a unit like Galactus that absolutely shatters the mold and defines the word EVENT. He plays exactly as you'd expect Galactus to and it makes the game a whole new experience. I remember when I first saw him (behind closed doors - he was finished before I became a Hero)... my jaw DROPPED. A - DOCTOR DOOM  There's something about power theft that always gets me excited... just picturing in your head what Doom would look like wielding Thor's lightning, or Flash's speed, or even Galactus's hunger! It's tough to get an iconic character like Doom down perfectly, with so many tricks up his sleeve in the comics, but power theft is such a classic Doom ability and it represents him in a larger sense... a constant thirst for power. B - WOLVERINE  This category is BRUTAL - so many great designs. Flash, Green Lantern, War Machine, Kang, Batman 2.0, and more. But I have to give it to Wolverine - I think he's possibly the greatest design in C3G history. All three powers read AND play right out of the comics - that's almost impossible to get right. You read Adamantium Claws? "That's totally Wolverine." You PLAY a game, and you use Adamantium Claws? "That's totally Wolverine." Same with Berserker Rage and Healing Factor. Not to mention the way he ebbs and flows in battle - making for exciting and novel gameplay every time - and the interplay he has with the rest of the X-Men mechanically that further suits the theme. Shout out to @Hahma for his work on this one... I know, as always, it's a team effort, but you deserve some HEFTY credit for Wolverine. C - CAPTAIN AMERICA  Not much to say about Cap here - he's a solid design that takes the Hasbro version a step further. I think he's one of the best examples of what makes C3G different from Heroscape. It's a more complex design, but it leads to more complex gameplay; the theme is just jam-packed int there. Again, he reads like Captain America and he plays like Captain America - the "revealed Order Marker" restriction is a brilliant one. D - WALKER  This is sort of an odd choice, but I think the Walkers really encapsulate the "zombie apocalypse" feel. It's interesting, because even though Walking Dead wasn't made for them, it feels like it is - the name, the mechanic, and the flavor all strike a different chord when you put them on a common unit rather than the unique Zombie. Again, it reads iconic and it plays iconic - the Walking Dead army is one of my favorites in the world. It's a great example of finding new design space from old mechanics... sometimes the better mousetrap is the old mousetrap! JOHNNY139'S CLASSIC CUSTOM THREAD! | Visit now!
|
|
#4
January 26th, 2015, 05:43 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Well met!
[My comments in red.] Quote:
|
|
#5
January 26th, 2015, 06:18 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Well met!
[My comments in red.] Quote:
|
|
#6
January 26th, 2015, 06:34 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Y Knot?
I won't post cards but I'll bite.
Super A: Ultron is the only one out of this bunch that really excites me although Mephisto has some cool tricks. A: Not a whole ton of favorites but probably between MODOK, Doom, and Mags. Graviton and Dark Phoenix aren't too far off and I want to play Quasar. B: The Lobo card drips with theme. I really like Gorgon. I love Starlord armies. Cosmic Boy and Cable are always fun. But really my personal favorite from this category is Martian Manhunter. C. There isn't much that I get super excited for from this category. Red Skull and X-23 and that's about it although I do keep trying to work Titanium Man into a build and Voodoo looks fun. D. This is where it's at. We've got Ozy. We've got Heinrich Zemo (who I think is better than Helmut but I see the appeal of Helmut). We've got Kirigi. We've got Blob. We've got Speedball. We've got Deadshot. We've got Cassandra Cain. We've got Vertigo. We've got Ragdoll. We've got the Cuckoos. So many fun figures. I can't pick one. (but probably would take Zemo or the Cuckoos if forced to) ~Dysole, succinctly My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long.
|
|
#7
January 26th, 2015, 06:53 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Y Knot?
Quote:
Failing that, she's got a base attack of 5 and Whirlwind Attack (not literally, but she effectively has it as part of Slayer Training) without Super Strength. So she's not a half-bad Enchantress buddy. Throw Cap or Star-Lord in there too, and you can really start getting her base attack to scary levels. Quote:
|
|
#8
January 26th, 2015, 07:05 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
How did chas pick those breaks? It's odd how narrow category C is.
If you wanted roughly equal numbers of C3G designs in each, the breakdown would be: Super A: 295+ A: 215-290 B: 160-210 C: 100-155 D: 10-95 That said, it does feel like intuitively the bins should get bigger as you move down the scale. What feels right to me would be something like: Super A: 430+ (20 designs) A: 350-420 (43) B: 270-340 (64) C: 150-260 (122) D: 10-145 (185) That aligns pretty closely with my feel for big bruisers versus midrange heroes versus support/fodder/filler slot in. Last edited by dok; January 26th, 2015 at 07:06 PM. Reason: I may or may not have done some curve-fitting to come up with those breakpoints
|
|
#9
January 26th, 2015, 08:38 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Well met!
Quote:
|
|
#10
January 27th, 2015, 10:58 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
SECRET ORIGINS:
THE CHAS SUPERSCAPE CHARACTER LEVEL SYSTEM Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear, when I decided to take up SuperHeroScape (SS), keep and expand my old collection of Heroclix supers figures, and compile my own vast character Card Library, made up of both C3G and Independent designs from all over the site, including my own for characters for whom others had not yet created, or particular favorites of mine—see The Chas Quick Scan Master Lists of Superheroes and Supervillains available onsite, which lists my own preferred versions of our beloved characters from the various comic book universes, including team rosters (although you’ll have to find the cards themselves, all designers are identified). I would feel free to mix not only supers designers but Classic/VC in some games as well, and there are discussion threads on that subject around as well. Clearly, a simple guideline for creating supers game armies or ‘player teams’ was needed, at least by me as a Game Master, in order to be able to program in a general way the parameters of player selected teams for my own custom scenarios. Some of them would be experimenting with creating adventures which would, to some degree, simulate specific types of comic book plot lines. The ideal would be to allow players to form their own teams, but have them be competitive with each other, as well as bring out particular aspects of the type of scenarios I would write--many of which are also available here onsite, in areas like Marvel/Marvel Maps and Scenarios or Battle Reports. The main development and fine tuning then came down to the phrase “Pulp Adventure,” and the card of one particular hero: Captain America. How so? I’m glad you asked. The first major obstacle in taking an adult approach to SS was The Beefcake Problem. Characters as omnipotent as Superman and Thor could wipe the floor with lower level folks. And due to the Heroscape Order Marker mechanic, which I wanted to keep, it was hardly worth putting an OM on anyone else in your team with these guys and gals like Wonder Woman around. Also, in the thirty years or so I’d been away from the comics, (now supplemented by wikipedia for available research information), there had been waves of power creep so vast that there were dozens of powered up Beefcakes available. Clearly, figures had to be made limited in inverse proportion to their point values, if games were to be played more complex than those one would want to play with children. My ownplaymates, The New York City Gang of Four, is made up of older players, although we have a guest kid once in a while. Just as we rarely play 'A' rated Classic Scape characters in our regular non-tournament style games—what’s the challenge in that—early SS games when I helped Taeblewalker playtest the first C3G cards and the original designer many Sherman Davies cards seemed too often to come down to dumping the OMs on the stronger characters until they pounded themselves to oblivion in dice rolling fests, whereupon you’d pick your next strongest characters, and then rinse and repeat…until the last few characters were left, and Robin was slugging it out with a squad of Thugs. Boring! In addition to being able to create a level system that would take in all supers designs of all types, I wanted specifically to produce “Pulp Adventure” games, where only characters with a maximum level of about 200 Points would be acceptable. This was my name, being a baby boomer, for the old style movie serial heroes and pulp adventure books from the Thirties and Forties, who would win by plain uppercuts to the jaw of the bad guy, not using cosmic powers to defeat evil gods! These were folks like Doc Savage, The Shadow, Buck Rogers, and so forth. Especially for WWII period games, where The Blackhawks or The Howling Commandos would be taking on Nazi squad soldiers and nefarious but recognizably human villains like Red Skull, I needed to carefully differentiate which lower level Golden Age types like Captain America or Dr. Mid Nite would make major contributions. But CA was 220-240 points. He didn’t fit. He wasn’t a ‘D’ Level. He was a ‘C.’ This specific example seemed to apply all across the spectrum of designers, who after all, were modeling the same character types. And the break points between levels seemed to follow unwritten rules that had to be intuited experientially over many games, rather than mathematically as such. Why does it break down that way? I’m not sure; it just does. Meaningful levels separate out certain types of characters, and allow me to program teams based on them. But they work, so that’s why they stay the way they are for my games. If ‘C’ is a narrower band, its because it seems to segregate certain types out from those below or above them. Go figure. A typical General Supers game scenario might allow a team made up of One A, Two Bs, Three Cs, and any number of Ds (support characters such as squads and normal civilian assistants). A scenario might have its parameters changed by the particulars of our player’s desires. Taeblewalker wants to play the Fantastic Four? What slightly more general level allocations would allow them? We want to allow the new C3G Guardians of the Galaxy a better chance of performing than they did in my Thanos mini-campaign? The general parameters of the new Alien Invitational scenario are specifically based around that team, which will in fact be one of the teams appearing in that game. A typical Pulp Adventure team might allow only one or two Cs and the rest Ds. This is where the support characters really shine, and us almost normal people get to be heroic. Throw in your ‘street heroes’ for modern day games--those misfits and wackos with alternate life styles that don’t get to address the United Nations here in New York, but do the most good for the folks in the ‘hood. The kind of crime buster Batman used to be, before it was decided that he had to be able to outfight A Levels hand to hand (please). Of course, others have handled it in different ways. The original C3G books of scenarios provided canned teams. And one of the first glyphs they produced was Green Kryptonite, to balance out the Original Beefcake. But the Character Level System makes it a lot easier for free form games. Feel free to use it or adopt it, as with any of the stuff I post as you see fit. And your feedback is always welcome. It’s a little weird to see hundreds of hits with no comments left behind. Are all those people interacting with one’s ideas, or just taking a brief look around and leaving? One never knows.
|
|
#11
January 27th, 2015, 10:42 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Super A: Above 500 points (chas' Levels only go up to 500)
A: 351-500 B: 241-350 C: 201-240 D: 10-200 Super A: Odin -I love the way he ties all the Asgardians together. You can't go wrong by giving them an additional life, and the ability to potentially attack with your entire army. A: Nova Prime -His specials are incredibly fun, useful, and with some attack boosts from support figures, as well as a healer, he can really shine. B: Wonder Woman -One of the most useful units that you can always count on to deliver their point value and then some. She can provide the perfect counter to so many powerful/annoying units. She also has decent stats to boot. A move of 7, with flight, and the ability to pull someone adjacent from 4 spaces away, gives her quite a bit of offensive advantage. C: Aquaman -Incredible power and support for his cost. Tag him with Hydro-Man, you have yourself a unit that can deal attacks of 8, defense of 7, AND heal himself or an adjacent figure on a 6 or higher after each turn. In the right setting, you'd be hard pressed to find a better unit at his cost range. D: Oracle -Drop your X on her, and you get a +3 to initiative, and 1 attack with an auto-skull each round. On top of that, she also offers Order Marker insurance for your entire army. Tack on a passable attack, your 110 points are well spent.
|
|
#12
January 27th, 2015, 11:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Coolest C3G Designs
Super A: Above 500 points
I love all the Event Heroes. It's so cinematic to have a team of superheroes against one big guy and the fight comes down to a few wounds. I love how you can make one team, say the Justice League, and their strategies have to change radically if they are fighting Starro, Galactus, or the Anti-Monitor. This is a tough choice but I think Anti-Monitor takes the cake. As the first Event Hero, he had the most wow factor and proved to us that a 1600 point figure was actually possible. A: 351-500 Superman (I and II), Abomination, Cyborg Supes, Doomsday, and Destroyer Armor are all great. But Thor wins this one. His base stats alone make him a god, and his Mjolnir special attack instantly conjures a mental picture of Thor swinging and throwing his trusty hammer. B: 241-350 Wow, this category has way too many of my favorite figures: Iron Patriot, Wonder Woman, almost all the Lanterns (Sinestro & Guy in particular). But Spider-Man sticks out as the best C3G design of this bunch. It perfectly represents everybody's favorite webslinger. C: 201-240 Hawkman and Hawkgirl. The Thanagarian army is one of the strongest I have used, it oozes theme, and it's so much fun. D: 10-200 There are so many good ones in this category. Mister Zsasz comes close, but I have to give the win to Punisher. Heroes of Star Wars 'Scape (HoSS), C3G 'Scape (superheroes & comic books!), My C3G Points, My Customs
|
|
|
|||||||
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Which Dragon Looks The Coolest? | Ullar rocks 4553 | Official Units | 35 | September 17th, 2007 06:23 PM |
| Coolest Custom I've Ever Used | InfinityMax | Custom Units & Army Cards | 5 | January 28th, 2007 11:07 AM |
| The coolest Force is Utgar! | Jedi Master Corazz | HeroScape General Discussion | 27 | September 7th, 2006 08:43 PM |
Linear Mode
