Army Cards with negative point values

[Velenne]

Forgive me if this has been done. I was watching some friends pick out armies tonight and several times they were 5 or 10 over the limit. This got me thinking...

AMMO CART (double-spaced figure)
Unique(?) Hero(?)
L 1
M 0
R 0
A 0
D 3
Tend the Supply Train
While Ammo Cart is in your army, subtract 5 from your initiative rolls.

-10 points

Advantage: You get 10 more points to build your army.
Disadvantage: Lose starting zone spaces and take a hit to your initiative rolls.

That's just one example. I'm sure you can think of more, but I like the idea of the negative point value cards being inanimate objects. This keeps them from benefiting you any more than they already do. I mean, you could set it up in an awkward place in your starting zone to block your enemy and goad them into destroying it.

I also like that it discourages more squad-scape. Should they be common? I wouldn't think so. But there could be multiple different kinds worth different values with ever-increasing penalties.

[pegasus]

I did a negative valued custom once (Sir Render, follow the link in my sig) but he was never intended for actual play.
I think yours is the first serious attempt to make the concept work.

[ProtoFury]

That's quite the interesting concept, but maybe if it were something other than an ammo cart... That may lead one to assume they're getting something more along the lines of an extra attack die or something than an extra 10 points. Hopefully the people on this site all know to read a card before you draft t, bu maybe ther friends don't.

However, I guess you cold say that the extra 10 points for that last squad essentially gives them the extra ammo. It'd be interesting to see a custom figure for this.

[Velenne]

Ok here's another one.

SACRIFICIAL ALTAR (double-spaced figure)
Unique(?) Hero(?)
L 1
M 0
R 0
A 0
D 5
Appease the Ancients
At the end of each round, roll the d20. If you roll a 2 or higher, inflict one wound on any unit you control.

-20 points

I figure 20 points is a pretty huge advantage, so the penalty should be pretty big too. It's basically a glyph of Wannok for your opponent. Is that a big enough disadvantage do you think?

[rym]

Velenne, regarding Sacrificial Altar, I would almost say that you need to change the d20 numbers, or the points garnered for having Sacrificial Altar in your army. You're almost guaranteed to roll 2 or higher every time, and that is a lot of wounds to inflict upon yourself over the course of a game. I would say either change it to something like a Braxas Acid Breath roll (maybe 7-8 or higher), or give yourself 30 points.

I think 40 points would be too much to give as people would just grab rats and use those as wound sponges if they needed to.

Just my two cents. But I do tell you this: I would definitely love to see something like this soon, perhaps played in a Wacky Tournament or some such thing.

[Velenne]

I fear going higher than 20 points on something like this, rym. 20 is a lot of extra points to fit stuff into. 40 is definitely too much, as you said.

I could see raising the number on the altar. I think the idea warrants some testing.

Not much response to any of this, generally speaking. Lots of views though. I wonder if this is just a rarely-visited subforum if I just have a stupid idea?

[GameBear]

Interesting concept. The examples are a bit too easy to kill with friendly fire, though - particularly on the first order marker, when the enemy might not even be in range (meaning the attacks would not even be wasted).

I think the objects would work if they were a lot tougher (like Fortress Door). This would also create an incentive for the controlling army to play aggressively (since the objects would be negatives in games ended by time or round limit).

Alternatively, abilities could be permanent (even after destruction), front-loaded (first-round handicap), tied to destruction (explosion), spirited (like Viking Champions)... lots of possibilities.

[Warlord Alpha]

Originally Posted by GameBear

Interesting concept. The examples are a bit too easy to kill with friendly fire...

That is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the Sacrificial Altar card. I know exactly what I would do if I were to use it - "whatever, I'll just use my first OM or two to destroy it."

It would need to be something either non-destructible or simply very hard to kill. It could even be something as simple as an object where all it does is "at the start of the game place a wound marker on any hero you control" or something like that for -10 or 15 points.

[Anitar]

ZeRO Blast
(common 3-space)
Life 1
Move 2
Range 1
Attack 0
Defense 3

LIFE LINK
When a ZeRO Blast is destroyed, destroy all friendly figures within 3 spaces. Clear sight is not needed.

NECESSARY UNIT
You must place all ZeRO Blasts in your army on the battlefield.


(yes, you can set up a chain of these)

[A_Train]

My groups has often toyed with the thought of creating a 5 point 'villager' or 'peasant' character. Something basically useless, but allows you to use your full points. Maybe the way we should have been looking at it is something that is -5 (or -15) to cancel out the effect of taking out hero or squad ending with 5.


Heres my quickly thrown together version of a villager

Town Villager
Unique(?) Hero(?)
L 1
M 5
R 1
A 1
D 0
Points -5


Distraction
Any friendly unit adjacent to Town Villager may not attack non-adjacent figures

Panic
Anytime a friendly unit within 4 clear line of site spaces is attacked, the Town Villager may move up to 4 spaces, chosen by your opponent.

Protect the Townsfolk
The Town Villager may not be targeted for attacks by friendly units.


Basically he'd be a distraction for your ranged figures, getting in the way. Allowing your opponent to frequently move him seems to make sure he'd always be around. This could get annoying though if you are left with a single ranged figure, and the villager.
Any comments.

[Calzone]

It might be interesting to come up with some negative value cards that don't have corresponding figures. For instance:

Walking Wounded

Before the beginning of the first round, roll a twenty-sided die once for each squad you control. On a roll of 17 or higher, destroy one squad member.

Before the beginning of the first round, roll a twenty-sided die once for each hero you control. On a roll of 17 or higher, place one wound marker on that hero.

-15pts

Forced March

Your army is wearied from a long arduous march. All of your units subtract two from their move scores during the first round.

-5pts.


Conscripted Army

At the end of every turn, any common units you control not within 4clear sight spaces of a Unique figure you control take one wound.
-20pts


i think the idea is neat, but this would add a very large new dimension to how Heroscape is played. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that...

[Velenne]

You folks bring up some great points. I was under the impression you couldn't attack your own figures? Or is it just that a figure can't attack itself?

If the former, then yes, a caveat would need to be made that prevents you from attacking the unit penalizing you.

Lots of possibilities, but I'm a big fan of the concept. How often have you been 5 points over on a build you really liked?