LC's Customs- Updated! Minotaur Stampede 01/09/19

[miantanomo]

Nice i got to give the creator credit! Ide give you rep but I dont know how...

[Lamaclown]

Added Jan. 19
Sixxer
See him in the OP.

[Lamaclown]

Added Kel'hoth and redid Pyre. He was overpriced and underpowered. Hopefully he is better balanced now. Let me know what y'all think of him or any others.

Kel'hoth...

[Lamaclown]

New Mirror Mage added 01/26/09...

[hippogog]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

This first attempt is Senach the Spectre. I have not playtested him yet (I do not get to play often) so I am not certain about his point value. I was also thinking of increasing his Attack to 4. Any constructive feedback will be appreciated.



The figure is the Ekkyon Wayfarer from Dreamblade.

You have some cool ideas. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one using figures from Dreamblade!

I really like the flavor of the Graveyard Overlord ability. It reminds me of one of my favorite Magic the Gathering cards, from way back, Balduvian Dead:



The official ability text:
, Remove a creature card in your graveyard from the game: Put a 3/1 black and red Graveborn creature token with haste into play. Sacrifice it at end of turn.

In case you're not a M:TG player, Haste allows the creature token to attack that turn. Sacrificing the creature at end of turn simply means that the creature doesn't stick around. I loved that ability!

In any case, in order to avoid rules issues and confusion that might arise with temporarily taking control of the opposing figure or having the figure on Senach's army card, you might think about changing the ability to simply summon a generic figure with predetermined stats. This would also eliminate the somewhat-clunky rules text governing the power of the figure being summoned (i.e. the die roll text).

Here's a suggestion:

No Rest for the Wicked: Whenever a non-Undead, friendly figure is destroyed, put a Necromancy Token onto this army card. Whenever you reveal an Order Marker on this card, you may remove a Necromancy Token from this card, place a Gravespawn Render figure adjacent to Senach the Spectre, and then take a turn with that figure. Destroy the Gravespawn Render at the end of its turn.

One trade-off with this approach, however, is that you would need a companion army card and figure for the Gravespawn Render:

• Name: Gravespawn Render
• Allegiance: Utgar
• Species/Class: Undead Zombie Warrior
• Type: Common Hero
• Size/Height: Medium 5
• Points: ---

• Life: 1
• Move: 4
• Range: 1
• Attack: 3
• Defense: 0

This is a pretty severe departure from the original ability, but I think it captures the spirit behind it in a more stream-lined and rules-friendly way.

The Necro Force ability could then read:

Necromantic Boon 1: Senach the Spectre gets +1 Attack for each Necromancy Token on this army card (to a maximum of +3 Attack).

You could also then give him some sort of Undead boosting ability (to buff the Gravespawn Render, for example) or other necromantic-themed ability, powered by Necromancy Tokens.


Food for thought at the very least.

Hope this helped.

-hippogog

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by hippogog

You have some cool ideas. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one using figures from Dreamblade!

Thanks! Yeah, I was able to get a lot of the Dreamblade figures for next to nothing. I still need to re-base a few of them but I find that the sculpts really lend themselves to creativity since they are unlike any other game figures.

In any case, in order to avoid rules issues and confusion that might arise with temporarily taking control of the opposing figure or having the figure on Senach's army card, you might think about changing the ability to simply summon a generic figure with predetermined stats.

Interesting thoughts here. As far as the rules issues and confusion from temporarily taking control of the opposing figure, I wouldn't think it much different from a mindshackle except mindshackle takes place immediately; Graveyard Overlord is kind of like a "delayed mindshackle".

Summoning a generic figure is a good idea but I do feel it departs from the flavor of the ability. Having a previously unseen figure appear on the battlefield doesn't seem as "graveyardish" (if that's a word) as having a previously destroyed figure reappear. Also, the satisfaction of using an opponents own figure against them is part of it. Imagine killing an opponents most powerful remaining figure with a Chomp from their own Grimnak. Oh, the exultation!

This would also eliminate the somewhat-clunky rules text governing the power of the figure being summoned (i.e. the die roll text).

I'm really giving some thought to this point. I don't like wordy abilities either (although it seems common with my customs). I was trying to balance the power so that
1) it wouldn't be overpowered (it just didn't seem right to have Senach using figures more powerful than he with ease) and...
2) it would be more satisfactory and "joy inducing" when it worked to the max.

I'll mull this advice over and see what I can change.

I really appreciate the time and thought you put into helping me here. Like I said, I really will mull this over to see what improvements can be made to the "clunkiness" of the text. Thanks again...

Also, I added the next installment of the Mirror Mage Series in the OP

[hippogog]

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

Interesting thoughts here. As far as the rules issues and confusion from temporarily taking control of the opposing figure, I wouldn't think it much different from a mindshackle except mindshackle takes place immediately; Graveyard Overlord is kind of like a "delayed mindshackle".

Summoning a generic figure is a good idea but I do feel it departs from the flavor of the ability. Having a previously unseen figure appear on the battlefield doesn't seem as "graveyardish" (if that's a word) as having a previously destroyed figure reappear. Also, the satisfaction of using an opponents own figure against them is part of it. Imagine killing an opponents most powerful remaining figure with a Chomp from their own Grimnak. Oh, the exultation!

An undead Grimnak no less!

I hear what you're saying on this. If you're going to stick with the "previously destroyed figure" approach though, you'll need to figure out a way to deal with the Warrior's Swiftness Spirit, Warrior's Armor Spirit, and Warrior's Attack Spirit abilities, which use the destroyed figure (Eldgrim, Thorgrim, and Finn, respectively) to confer the specified bonus. If Senach destroys one of them, which destruction effect (his or the champion's) takes precedence?

Also, keep in mind that with Mind Shackle, Ne-Gok-Sa gains control of the given figure and the corresponding army card. This means that if he takes control of a squad figure, you also get control of any remaining members of the squad (since you control the army card). It doesn't seem like Graveyard Overlord would work this way (since the other members of the squad have not yet been destroyed), which means you could have a scenario where you control an opposing figure, but not the corresponding army card. Issues might arise as to how this would work, and so you may have to limit the effect to just unique heroes.

In any case, I totally understand why you'd want to stay true to the original concept and simply reuse the destroyed figures. You just may have to jump through a few hoops to get the mechanics worked out.

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

I'm really giving some thought to this point. I don't like wordy abilities either (although it seems common with my customs). I was trying to balance the power so that
1) it wouldn't be overpowered (it just didn't seem right to have Senach using figures more powerful than he with ease) and...
2) it would be more satisfactory and "joy inducing" when it worked to the max.

I'll mull this advice over and see what I can change.

I really appreciate the time and thought you put into helping me here. Like I said, I really will mull this over to see what improvements can be made to the "clunkiness" of the text. Thanks again...

No problem. I can definitely see why you'd want to control what figures could be resurrected in this way. I hope you didn't take offense to my use of the work "clunky." It's nothing personal. Believe me when I say I've written my fair share of wordy rules text.

Thanks for giving my suggestions some consideration. I'll let you know if I come up with any streamlined rules text for the Graveyard Overlord ability.

-hippogog

[The B.I.V.]

I toyed with an ability like this once, too. In my version, you halved the zombified units stats (since they're not exactly "themselves" anymore). You might want to add something like that, too.

Brandon

[hippogog]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

I toyed with an ability like this once, too. In my version, you halved the zombified units stats (since they're not exactly "themselves" anymore). You might want to add something like that, too.

Brandon

Brandon - I promise I'm not coming down on you here.

This is an interesting idea, as it makes sense from a flavor perspective, but I think it would only further complicate an already complicated ability. I think you either have to go all the way with the resurrected figure, or all the way in the opposite direction, with a predefined generic figure.

I do think a resurrected figure should gain the Undead species type though. That would be very flavorful, without over-complicating things.


-hippogog

[Lamaclown]

I hear what you're saying on this. If you're going to stick with the "previously destroyed figure" approach though, you'll need to figure out a way to deal with the Warrior's Swiftness Spirit, Warrior's Armor Spirit, and Warrior's Attack Spirit abilities, which use the destroyed figure (Eldgrim, Thorgrim, and Finn, respectively) to confer the specified bonus. If Senach destroys one of them, which destruction effect (his or the champion's) takes precedence?

Also, keep in mind that with Mind Shackle, Ne-Gok-Sa gains control of the given figure and the corresponding army card. This means that if he takes control of a squad figure, you also get control of any remaining members of the squad (since you control the army card). It doesn't seem like Graveyard Overlord would work this way (since the other members of the squad have not yet been destroyed), which means you could have a scenario where you control an opposing figure, but not the corresponding army card. Issues might arise as to how this would work, and so you may have to limit the effect to just unique heroes.

I toyed with an ability like this once, too. In my version, you halved the zombified units stats (since they're not exactly "themselves" anymore). You might want to add something like that, too.

Thanks again for the input...

Prov 15:22 Without counsel, plans go awry, But in the multitude of counselors they are established.

I hadn't thought about the Warrior Spirit enhancements. It is an easy fix but I am afraid the "Wordy Text" monster will strike again. My thoughts for it are that Senach's ability overides the Warrior Spirit abilities since he is the Overlord of those he destroys. This could be a strategic use of Senach to rob an opponent of those enhancements they may be relying on.

As far as squad figures go I had thought about this but wasn't sure how to go about it. Your idea that Senach's ability only works on heroes is a good, simple solution. I think I will go with that.

I hope you didn't take offense to my use of the work "clunky." It's nothing personal. Believe me when I say I've written my fair share of wordy rules text.

Not at all. One of my concerns already is that on an actual-size card the text will be difficult to read. I had considered doing away with the Ghost Walk ability to make more room on the card (it just seems so thematic its hard to decide).

Anyhow, thanks again to both of you and I will be interested in further input from you guys and anyone else... we only improve when challenged and advised

[Lamaclown]

Updated Senach the Spectre. Need some input on the wording of his Graveyard Overlord ability (especially the taking "precedence over other post-destruction abilities" part).

Also updated the Mirror Mage Acolytes. I wanted a squad that could enhance both the mirror mages and the elven wizards.

Added next 2 figures in the Mirror Mage series..

[clancampbell]

Love your stuff man. A couple of observations though.

Colnel Kildare is very nice, but I think a bit undercosted, that last special of his is a hero killer on par with Braxas and Grimnak and they are way over 80 points.

Pyre is also awesome. I really like the fig you used. Where did you get it and what line is it from if you don't mind me asking? His last special is kind of confusing though. Can you expend all the markers on him in the same turn, or does it only affect 3 figures adjacent to the blast? Also, why is his armor not a hit zone?