The Book of Story Card Rules

[IAmBatman]

I ask specifically because you say we'd be making a change to Hasbro rules/precedent and the BftU reference you brought up seems to oppose that argument?

That said, I think I'd prefer having the "no OMs" language that we do on DOs just for clarity. But I think given the DO example, your concern about breaking ways with Hasbro might be a tad overblown/inaccurate (or at least not technically correct, which is the best kind of not correct).

[LordVenoc]

Doctor Manhattan is basically your only existing power that would mess with things, as he could force Order Markers over to the Story Card without a "no OMs" ruling. Otherwise, most everything is either hero/type specific or would let you get OMs off the story card in figure destruction sorts of situations. Making it an Army Card would let Zemo prevent accessing the powers with his trap, but that's otherwise it.

If anything, searching through the powers found more of an issue with spells not being army cards, as spells can technically get around stuff like Stuck if they aren't considered Army Cards (which they should be).

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think the lack of clarity there is problematic for Story Cards and not a mistake I want to repeat here. I'll let someone else tackle cleaning that up, though.

I think adding the no OM wording from DO's makes a ton of sense and will include that post-breathing.

As a general thought, how do folks feel about skipping through actual testing for this design (I'm not sure what we'd actually test)?

[tcglkn]

Doesn't need testing but it needed a clear focused discussion and then editing time.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

If anything, searching through the powers found more of an issue with spells not being army cards, as spells can technically get around stuff like Stuck if they aren't considered Army Cards (which they should be).

A spell counts as a power on a figure's Army Card when you cast it.

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I feel like the shift to making these Army Cards that reside in your army is unnecessary and doesn't jive well with what Army Cards have been defined as in the past. It also seems to be based on a misunderstanding that Army Card = a card in a player's army, which has simply never been true. (The card of a DO controlled by neither player is still an Army Card.) So like even if we changed Story Cards and Spell Cards to be Army Cards, Army Card still =/= card in an army. That's HS for ya.

That said, while I think it's kinda pointless, as long as it doesn't bother any of our existing powers I don't see a huge problem with it. I guess I just want us to recognize that it's a change, vs. something that's always been there? (Because I think that affects the way we handle things a lot.) We'd need new definitions for Army, etc, even if we tackle that in the Story Card rulebook.

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I don't see much need for testing here, and I'll volunteer to tackle any/all testing that comes up, as needed.

[IAmBatman]

OK, after discussing Hasbro precedent some, here are a few true and useful statements:

1. Glyph cards are not Army Cards
2. Destructible Objects, whether or not they are draftable, *are* Army Cards
3. Spells are not clearly defined as Army Cards or not in the current rulebook
4. BftU says explicitly that there are 4 types of Army Cards: Common Army Cards, Uncommon Army Cards, Unique Army Cards, and Destructible Object Army Cards
5. And here's their definition of Army:
Army: An Army is a group of one or more Heroes and/or Squad figures that each player has in front of them. This includes figures that are destroyed and those not yet on the battlefield.
6. We have clearly altered their definition to include Destructible Objects under your control. Those notably still include figures.
7. The current common denominator for all Hasbro Army Cards is that they all have a Life Number and are thus all something you can destroy.
8. Being draftable into an Army is *not* a common denominator for all Hasbro Army Cards.
9. Having a card with special powers on it does not necessarily make something an Army Card, as shown by Glyphs.

All of which is to say, I think after reviewing this that Story Cards and Spell Cards may have more in common with Glyph Cards than Army Cards. I do think it's confusing, however, to have something be draftable and not part of your army (which is a different conversation than being an Army Card or not, fwiw). Glyphs are clearly not a part of your army, though, even though they're sort of indirectly draftable.

But that's like taking Floronic Man and Evergreen Trees. The trees clearly aren't part of your army, because you didn't actually draft them, even though they have Army Cards. Yet you bring them to the battlefield.

The difference with Story Cards is you draft them directly.

So I'm leaning towards them being part of your army but not Army Cards?

[MrNobody]

Asking because I sincerely don’t know - is there a tangible gameplay difference to these things being in your army? Or is the value just in the simplicity of “drafted = in your army?” (Which I can get behind, fwiw.)

[Lord Pyre]

Rules look fine to me. The only real issue and reason we're looking at these again is because the Set-up stuff technically took place after drafting, making drafting restrictions timed weirdly. Correct?

As long as that's fixed and we don't cause weirdness anywhere else, I think we're set.

Not sure the whole Army Card thing. What does that have to do with anything? Aside from some cards specifying Army Cards for figures, does that designation even do anything?

[IAmBatman]

I'm not sure of any way in particular that it is or isn't. I guess the end around is something like this?

All requirements listed in a Story Card's Prologue must be met by the start of the game, or the Story Card is not considered a part of the game and none of special powers on the Story Card are considered in effect for this game.

[IAmBatman]

The place that Army Card or not will come into play is how it interacts with powers that use phrases like "special power on an Army Card".

For instance, Jungle Plants on Animated Vines: "Whenever a special power on an Army Card refers to a Jungle Piece, it refers to the Animated Vines as well."

Or Immovable: "Blob may not be moved by any special power on an Army Card unless the player controlling Blob allows him to be moved."

Or Stuck: "All small or medium opponent's figures that enter or occupy a space adjacent to Blob may not move. Figures affected by Stuck cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card."

Honestly I'd be fine if special powers on Story Cards got around Immovable or Stuck (seems thematic?) but it would be handy to be able to reference Jungle Piece in the single term.

Another one is Magical Aptitude: "Kristoff may cast Spells as if he had the Magical Defense special power. Kristoff may not cast more than one Spell per round. While Kristoff is casting a Spell, whenever a special power on an Army Card or glyph refers to the Magical Defense special power, it refers to this special power as well."

There are several others, but they're all variations on the above, so any ruling we're happy with for the above would likely apply to them as well.

[Lord Pyre]

Yeah I might lean towards calling them Army Cards just to keep things simple and intuitive (Like who would remember that they'd get around Stuck just because of goofy wording minutia?)

As long as that doesn't add greater goofiness, of course.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, even though it's establishing our own precedent (Army Cards now include a thing without Life that you can't destroy), I think it probably makes the most sense. Otherwise there's really no reason to call the rules special powers, because special powers that *aren't* on an Army Card aren't really mechanically relevant to most things in terms of interactions with existing powers.