The Book of Zatanna (III)

[Yodaking]

If you are going to include punches and kicks, then yeah change the name to something that represents what you think is happening and leave the Bullets to Butterfly name for something that only effects ranged attacks please.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Like I said, I ain’t played the design. Could feel totally fine in practice. But from a theoryscaping perspective, making this power that already seemed pretty good numbers-wise twice as powerful worries me.

As I said before, I played the games originally with adjacent attacks included, only to have to go back and eliminate/re-play the bits that were affected by it. The original results with adjacent attacks included still had her at 1-2.

Of course, adding in the +6 for non-adjacent will help her, but ultimately non-adjacent likely isn't gonna be the majority of rolls you see, and adjacent rolls are still by no means a guarantee at 13+. Additionally, the +6 was just a number, if we want to go with a +3, for example, that works too. No real preference. Either way, I'd rather she be more fun and useful at 250-260, than a bit underwhelming at 210, is what it ultimately comes down to.

Keep in mind, there are several ways the power can fail:
• Attacking someone outside of her range of 4.
• Special attacks.
• Auto-wounds.
• Doesn't roll high enough.

Also keep in mind, Zatanna with 4 life and 4 defense, unless properly supported, is pretty easy to prioritize and kill with any reasonably built army. Fan 4 and the Guardians made pretty short work of her. If we move forward with this, I always encourage anyone concerned to just try it out themselves.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

If you are going to include punches and kicks, then yeah change the name to something that represents what you think is happening and leave the Bullets to Butterfly name for something that only effects ranged attacks please.

There are several instances where she's changing people into various animals, melee weapons into flowers, or projectiles into whatever etc. So theme wise, it's sound. Naming wise, we could go with:
DANGER INTO DOVES
SOFTEN STRIKE / NETFOS EKIRTS
ABATE ATTACK / ETABA KCATTA
DIMINISH DAMAGE / HSINIMID EGAMAD
FALTER FORCE / RETLAF RCROF
FORCE FADE / ECROF EDAF

[Yodaking]

Current wording effects special attacks as well as normal.

BULLETS TO BUTTERFLIES
After an opponent rolls attack dice for a non-adjacent attack against Zatanna or a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Zatanna, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, subtract 2 skulls from that roll.

BULLETS TO BUTTERFLIES
After an opponent rolls attack dice for an attack against Zatanna or a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Zatanna, you may roll the 20-sided die. If the attack is non-adjacent, you may add 6 to your roll. If you roll 13 or higher, subtract 2 skulls from that roll.

A SA counter would be a good balancer to have.

You are the only person I've ever heard complain that a MD figure is too fragile. You must absolutely hate all the 4 def/4 life figures we have that can drop to one attack instead of requiring a minimum of 4.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

You are the only person I've ever heard complain that a MD figure is too fragile. You must absolutely hate all the 4 def/4 life figures we have that can drop to one attack instead of requiring a minimum of 4.

Your comment is a bit off the mark and confusing.

Firstly, we're talking about a mid 200's figure here, not sub ~180, which is where you run into most 4/4 non Magical Defense figures.

Secondly, I'm used to running armies with multiple activations, attacks, and auto-wounders, as those generally are our most reliable/solid armies, which can eat through a 4/4 Magical Defense figure fairly quick.

Lastly, and most importantly, it wasn't a complaint. Saying someone "is pretty easy to prioritize and kill with any reasonably built army" is not me suggesting there's an issue(all Zatanna's have the same stats, and you have yet to see me pushing for anything higher), or that she is too fragile(This would be my 5th LD with 4/4 + MD, why would I keep doing that if I thought it was bad?), it's merely a statement to suggest there are plenty of ways to deal with/get around/eliminate the power from triggering.

[Arkham]

Version tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = ZATANNA
SECRET IDENTITY = ZATANNA ZATARA

SPECIES = HOMO MAGI
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = TRICKY

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ~250

PICK A NUMBER
At the start of the game, choose a number. Anytime a player rolls the 20-sided die and the final result equals the chosen number, you may choose a figure within clear sight of Zatanna to receive a wound. Once per game, after rolling the 20-sided die for Zatanna, you may change the rolled number to the chosen number.

BULLETS TO BUTTERFLIES
After an opponent rolls attack dice for a normal attack against Zatanna or a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Zatanna, you may roll the 20-sided die. If the attack is non-adjacent, you may add 4 to your roll. If you roll 13 or higher, subtract 2 skulls from that roll.

MAGICAL DEFENSE
When Zatanna is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, the most wounds Zatanna can take for this attack is one.

FLYING

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Zatanna(240), Sub-Zero(230), Superman(440), Angel(90) (1000)
vs.
Fantastic Four (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:
R4T1: 3 wounds on Thing(botch).
R4T2: 3 wounds(1 is excess) on Thing, kills him.

Pick a Number:
Picks 18.
R1T2: BtB, 1 wound on Thing
R2T1: BtB, once per game change, 1 wound on Human Torch, kills him.
R2T2: Sub's Freeze Blast, 1 wound on Mr. Fantastic.

Bullets to Butterflies: (7/16 attempts successful, +1 auto success) (3/16 were non-adjacent)
R1T2: rolls a 3 + 4 = 7, fails
• rolls a 14 + 4 = 18, 1 skull turns to 0
R1T3: rolls a 16, 2 skulls turns to 0.
• rolls an 18, 3 skulls turns to 1.
R2T1: rolls a 19 + 4, 1 skull turns to 0.
• rolls a 15, Zatanna uses her once per game to change it to 18, 3 skulls turn to 1.
R2T2: rolls a 15, 4 skulls turn to 2.
• rolls a 1, fails
R2T3: rolls a 4, fails
• rolls a 2, fails
• rolls a 14, 2 skulls become 0.
R3T1: rolls a 1, fails
R3T2: rolls a 1, fails
• rolls a 13, 7 skulls becomes 5.
R3T3: rolls a 3, fails
R4T1: rolls a 10, fails

Notes:
R1T1: Mr. F rolls an 11.
R1T2: Mr. F rolls a 9.
R1T3: Mr. F rolls a 9. Human Torch takes 3 wounds from Sub-Zero's Ice Clone Counter.
R2T1: Mr. F rolls a 19. Human Torch uses Supernova, puts 3 wounds on Angel, 1 wound on Zatanna, and 1 wound on Sub-Zero.
R2T1: Sub-Zero Freezes Mr. F for -1 def, then puts 3 wounds on him.
R2T2: Mr. F rolls an 8.
R2T3: Mr. F rolls an 8. Thing kills Sub-Zero with full Clobberin' Time, then kills Angel.
R2T3: Superman kills Mr. Fantastic.
R3T1: Superman takes 1 wound from LEA, then puts 3 wounds on Invisible Woman.
R3T1: Thing puts 2 wounds on Superman.
R3T2: Superman puts 1 wound on Invisible Woman.
R3T2: Thing puts 2 wounds on Superman. Thing puts 1 more wound on Superman.
R3T3: Superman kills Invisible Woman.
R3T3: Thing kills Superman.
R4T1: Thing puts 1 wound on Zatanna.


Zatanna with 2/4 wounds(2 life).

Solid matchup here with lots of action all around. Pick a Number hit about average, Bullets to Butterflies hit about average as well. Zatanna ultimately got in some big hits near the end due to Thing rolling low on his defense, while she rolled 3-4 skulls for both attacks. She can still probably come up a tad just to be safe.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Zatanna(265), Scarlet Witch(285), Archangel(260), Diablo(140) (950)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Shang-Chi(230), Moon Knight(150), Firestar(120) (950)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:


Pick a Number:
Picks 17.
R3T1: Archangel's RWS, 1 wound on Cage.
R3T2: BtB roll, 1 wound on Cage.
R4T2: BtB roll, once per game change, 1 wound on Cage, kills him.

Bullets to Butterflies: (3/7 attempts successful, +1 auto success) (0/7 were non-adjacent)
R2T2: rolls a 14, 2 skulls turn to 0.
R2T3: rolls a 15, 2 skulls turn to 0.
• rolls an 11, fails
R3T1: rolls a 4, fails
R3T2: rolls a 17, 3 skulls turn to 1.
R4T1: rolls a 3, fails
R4T2: rolls a 1, but uses once per game PaN to change to 17, 4 skulls change to 2.

Notes:
R1T1: Moon Knight puts 1 wound on Diablo with CD.
R1T2: Archangel puts 1 wound on Moon Knight.
R1T2: Moon Knight puts 1 wound on Archangel with CD, but misses on Diablo. Cage puts 2 wounds on Diablo.
R1T3: Diablo prevents Luke Cage and Moon Knight from doing anything with Sleep Potion.
R2T1: Diablo prevents Luke Cage and Moon Knight from doing anything with Sleep Potion.
R2T2: Cage can't use his special powers this turn. Archangel puts 1 wound on Cage with AA RWS.
R2T3: Moon Knight takes 1 wound from LEA. Archangel puts 1 wound on Cage with AA RWS. Cage puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R2T3: Scarlet uses her last curse on Iron Fist, then puts 2 wounds on Moon Knight.
R3T1: Archangel puts 1 wound on Moon Knight with RWS, kills him.
R3T1: Cage puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R3T2: Archangel puts 2 wounds on Iron Fist.
R3T2: Cage puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R3T3: Archangel puts 1 wound on Firestar with RWS, then attacks her for 1 wound.
R3T3: Shang-Chi puts 2 wounds on Archangel.
R4T1: Archangel puts 2 wounds on Shang-Chi.
R4T1: Shang-Chi kills Diablo.
R4T2: Shang-Chi kills Zatanna.
R4T3: Scarlet puts 1 wound on Shang-Chi.
R4T3: Shang-Chi kills Archangel.
R5T1: Shang-Chi puts 1 wound on Scarlet in 3 attacks.
R5T1: Scarlet puts 1 wound on Shang-Chi.
R5T2: Scarlet kills Shang-Chi.
R5T3: Iron Fist heals 1 wound.
R6T1: Iron Fist puts 1 wound on Scarlet.
R6T1: Scarlet puts 1 wound on Fist.
R6T2: Fist heals 1 wound.
R7T2: Fist puts 1 wound on Scarlet, then heals 1 wound.
R7T3: Fist kills Scarlet.


Firestar with 2/4 wounds(2 life), and Iron Fist unwounded.

Bit of a grind near the end when it came down to Scarlet vs. Fist, Shang, and Firestar. Reminded me why, as much as I loved using Scarlet back in the day in actual matches, she's a pain to go up against . Overall still a close game. All the d20 rolling was definitely nuts, but still only resulted in about an average success rate on Pick a Number. I think in general, purely trying to juice Pick a Number attempts, is not an ideal strategy. While it wasn't a fun army to play against, Zatanna wasn't really creating anything new in that regard, as Diablo + Scarlet + more denial and defensive units are always gonna be a slog.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Zatanna(250), Martian Manhunter(340), Green Arrow(210) (800)
vs.
Star-Lord(250), Nebula(240), She-Hulk(310) (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:


Pick a Number:
Picks 19.
R2T1: BtB roll, 1 wound on She-Hulk.
R3T2: BtB once per game change roll, 1 wound on Star-Lord.

Bullets to Butterflies: (2/6 attempts successful, +1 auto success) (1/6 were non-adjacent)
R1T3: rolls a 5, fails
R2T1: rolls a 19, 5 skulls to 3 skulls.
R3T2: rolls a 4 + 4 = 8, then uses once per game PaN to change it to 19, 3 skulls to 1 skull.
R3T3: rolls a 2, fails
R4T1: rolls a 7, fails
R4T2: rolls a 15, 3 skulls to 1 skull.

Notes:
R1T2: GA removes a marker, puts 2 wounds on She-Hulk.
R1T3: She-Hulk takes 1 wound from LEA, puts 5 wounds on Martian Manhunter.
R2: She-Hulk heals 1 wound.
R2T1: Martian Manhunter heals 2 wounds. Puts 2 wounds on She-Hulk with Martian Vision. Green Arrow removes a marker to take a turn.
R2T1: She-Hulk puts 1 wound on Martian Manhunter.
R2T2: Martian Manhunter kills She-Hulk.
R2T3: Green Arrow puts 2 wounds on Star-Lord.
R2T3: Star-Lord puts 1 wound on Martian Manhunter with his SAs.
R3T1: Star-Lord kills Martian Manhutner with his SAs.
R3T3: Nebula puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R3T3: Green Arrow puts 1 wound on Star-Lord.
R4T1: Star-Lord puts 1 wound on Zatanna with his SAs. Nebula takes 1 wound from LEA, puts 1 wound on Green Arrow with VS.
R4T1: Green Arrow kills Star-Lord.
R4T2: Green Arrow puts 4 wounds on Nebula in 2 attacks.
R4T3: Nebula kills Zatanna with VS.
R4end: Nebula heals 1 wound.
R5T1: Green Arrow puts 1 wound on Nebula.
R5T1: Nebula puts 2 wounds on Green Arrow with her attack.
R5T2: Green Arrow kills Nebula.


Green Arrow with 3/4 wounds(1 life, 1 marker).

Very close match. Once the big hitters took each other out, the match broke down into a skirmish between the remaining 2 on each team, and it felt pretty even.

250-260 looks good.

Army Test 4
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Zatanna(250), Ms. Marvel(350), Valkyrie(350) (950)
vs.
Star-Lord(250), Nebula(240), Cap(240), King Shark(220) (950)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:
R5T3: 1 wound on Star-Lord.

Pick a Number:
Picks 18.
R2T2: BtB roll, 1 wound on Cap.
R2T3: BtB roll, 1 wound on Cap.
• BtB once per game change, 1 wound on Cap, kills him.

Bullets to Butterflies: (7/16 attempts successful, +1 auto success) (0/16 were non-adjacent)
R2T1: rolls a 15, 6 skulls become 4.
R2T2: rolls a 12, fails
• rolls an 18, 1 skull becomes 0.
R2T3: rolls an 18, 2 skulls become 0.
• rolls a 9, but uses once per game to change to 18, 2 skulls become 0.
R3T1: rolls a 17, 3 skulls become 1.
R3T2: rolls a 13, 3 skulls become 1.
R3T3: rolls a 10, fails
R4T1: rolls a 3, fails
• rolls a 15, 3 skulls become 1.
R4T2: rolls a 15, 2 skulls become 0.
R4T3: rolls a 1, fails
R5T1: rolls a 3, fails
R5T2: rolls a 4, fails
R5T3: rolls a 1, fails
R6T1: rolls a 16, 5 skulls become 3.

Notes:
R1T2: Star-Lord puts 1 wound on Zatanna with his SAs.
R2T1: Cap puts 3 wounds on Ms. Marvel.
R2T1: Ms. Marvel puts 1 wound on Cap.
R2T2: Valkyrie puts 1 wound on Cap.
R2T3: Valkyrie avoids 2 LEAs, then puts 1 wound on Star-Lord.
R3T1: Star-Lord takes 1 wound from LEA.
R3T1: Valkyrie puts 1 wound on Star-Lord. Ms. Marvel puts 4 wounds on Nebula.
R3T2: King Shark puts 1 wound on Ms. Marvel, then takes 1 wound from Ms. Marvel's BD.
R3T2: Valkyrie takes 1 wound from LEA.
R3T3: Valkyrie saves Ms. Marvel's life, but takes 1 wound for her trouble, but then Nebula ends up killing Ms. Marvel anyway with VS.
R3end: Nebula heals 1 wound.
R4T1: Valkyrie puts 2 wounds on Nebula.
R4T1: Nebula puts 2 wounds on Valkyrie with VS.
R4T2: Valkyrie kills Nebula.
R4T3: Shark puts 2 wounds on Valkyrie.
R5T1: Shark kills Valkyrie.
R5T2: Shark puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R5T3: Shark puts 1 wound on Zatanna.
R6T1: Shark kills Zatanna.


Star-Lord with 4/5 wounds(1 life), and King Shark with 1/7 wounds(6 life).

Nice back and forth that felt fairly even, but the Guardians proved superior.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 5
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Zatanna(260), Batman(250), Hawkgirl(250), Cap(240) (1000)
vs.
Professor X(220), Archangel(260), Psylocke(250), Nightcrawler(210), Jubilee(60) (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Attack Damage:


Pick a Number:
Picks 17.
R1T2: enemy Archangel's RWS, 1 wound on Psylocke.
R1T3: BtB roll modified by Batman, 1 wound on Psylocke.
R2T2: BtB roll modified by Batman, 1 wound on Nightcrawler.
R3T2: BtB roll once per game change to 17, 1 wound on Nightcrawler, kills him.

Bullets to Butterflies: (5/11 successful attempts, +1 auto) (1/11 were non-adjacent)
R1T1: rolls a 10 + 4 = 14, 1 skull into 0.
R1T2: rolls a 4, fails
R1T3: rolls a 19, Batman lowers it to 17, 2 skulls to 0.
R2T1: rolls a 5, fails
R2T2: rolls a 15, Batman bumps it to 17, 3 skulls to 1.
R2T3: rolls a 4, fails
R3T1: rolls a 20, 4 skulls down to 2.
• rolls a 12, fails
• rolls a 12, fails
R3T2: rolls a 16, 2 skulls to 0.
• rolls a 19, uses once per game PaN to change to 17, 1 skull to 0.

Notes:
R1T2: Archangel uses RWS, puts 1 wound on Cap.
R1T3: Hawkgirl puts 4 wounds on Archangel.
R1T3: Archangel puts 1 wound on Hawkgirl with RWS, and would put 1 wound on Zatanna but Batman removes a marker to lower the roll.
R2T1: Psylocke puts 1 wound on Cap with PK.
R2T1: Cap kills Archangel.
R2T2: Psylocke puts 1 wound on Cap with PK.
R2T2: Hawkgirl puts 1 wound on Nightcrawler.
R2T3: Hawkgirl puts 1 wound on Psylocke with NMWS, then puts 1 wound on Nightcrawler with her attack.
R3T1: Psylocke puts 1 wound on Cap(botch). Nightcrawler puts 2 wounds on Zatanna in 2 attacks.
R3T1: Cap is killed by Psylocke's MMA.
R3T2: Psylocke puts 2 wounds on Hawkgirl with PK, then removes her OM3.
R3T2: Hawkgirl takes 1 wound from Psylocke's MMA.
R3T3: Psylocke kills Hawkgirl with PK.
R4T1: Psylocke kills Zatanna with PK.
R4T2: Batman takes 1 wound from Psylocke's MMA.
R4T2: Psylocke puts 1 wound on Batman.
R4T3: Batman is killed by Psylocke's MMA.


Psylocke with 3/5 wounds(2 life). Professor X and Jubilee unwounded.

Felt like anyone's game throughout. Psylocke hit a bit a of a hot streak near the end, which was nice as she failed a couple Psychic Knife attempts early on. Slight luck favor towards the X-Men side, but overall felt close to even.

[IAmBatman]

Looks solid. I'm cool with pushing towards a more powerful version to put her in a different niche than the existing Zatannas. Pre-yea for testing. No real preference on power titles.

[Arkham]

I have now completed 5 games with this version. A mix of JL focus and non.

Out of the 5 games:
Bullets to Butterflies(name change in the works) was rolled for 56 times. Out of those rolls, 24 were successful. Only 5 of the 56 rolls, were for a non-adjacent attack.

She went:

@265 0-1
@260 0-1
@250 1-1
@240 1-0

All games were close, to close-medium finishes. No big wins or losses. Hopefully this is considered satisfactory for anyone with any concerns.

I propose a vote to move to Public Playtesting at 250.

[Arch-vile]

yea

[tcglkn]

Yea

[MrNobody]

Yea, appreciate the extra testing

[Tornado]

Yea

[LordVenoc]

Clarification question with pick a number (now that the auto change is present). If she picks 20 as a number, would she theoretically be able to trigger it and have Fate steal the 20?

Technically more of a Dr Fate question, but definitely a potentially strong interaction if he can take that number. Basically gives you a guaranteed kill with some units.