Drafting from a Finite Pool

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by wriggz

When ever we throw down with C3G cards, Everyone gets 3-4 random cards point totals be damned.

Since we play 3-4 play free for all it balances out the point totals since if Thor, Superman or Thanos comes up everyone teams up on the strong player.

It is amazing how long Trickster can last in that kind of environment, since everyone ignores him.

Originally Posted by Tornado

Random from all the cards?

So I could pull a Moloid and you get Galactus?

Well met!

I made Under the Canopy a Team game to avoid the politics inherent in FFAs. [chas, on the other hand, loves that sh#t! See Criss Cross Scape.] With a random draw, even in a team game, the problem of the game being dominated by high point thuggery still exists. Taking a little time to create a finite pool eliminates that problem - and Wriggz's Trickster could thrive, not merely survive. For example, a 16 Card pool containing Trickster:

Within this pool, Trickster is fairly strong.

[Tornado]

Trickster is always strong. Itching Powder can be brutal.

[wriggz]

@kolakoski

Love the pool you have. In the past I have done something similar but I really limited it:

Pick one hero/squad for each player in various point ranges. Each player must pick one from each pool. So you would have 4 x ~100 point cards, 4 x ~200 points, 4x ~300 point, and 4 x ~400 point.

Also drafting work's in Zigzag order with the First person selecting 1st, 8th, 9th, and 16th while the 4th selects 4th, 5th, 12th, and 13th


You end up with a very quick and tight draft, but people still have choice and the armies are a surprise.

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by wriggz

@kolakoski

Love the pool you have. In the past I have done something similar but I really limited it:

Pick one hero/squad for each player in various point ranges. Each player must pick one from each pool. So you would have 4 x ~100 point cards, 4 x ~200 points, 4x ~300 point, and 4 x ~400 point.

Also drafting work's in Zigzag order with the First person selecting 1st, 8th, 9th, and 16th while the 4th selects 4th, 5th, 12th, and 13th


You end up with a very quick and tight draft, but people still have choice and the armies are a surprise.

Well met!

How did you choose the units you included in each point category? How did the 100 point units fare?

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Trickster is always strong. Itching Powder can be brutal.

Well met!

Units that target one Hero so heavily are nasty. Mister Mxyzptlk is a prime example.

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by wriggz

. . . and the armies are a surprise.

Well met!

Too often, in our games, "surprises" have lead to their being unpleasantly unbalanced. With cool Powers having no chance in the face of some one trick pony. While it has been pleasing to plan and execute a surprise that totally frustrates the other players, I also felt bad for them. Unlike Classic Scape, where I have most of the Cards' Powers memorized, C3G is relatively new to me, and most of C3G's Cards, and especially the finite pool of 16 Cards in Under the Canopy (chosen specifically for their unfamiliarity) have Powers that have never been displayed on the Gang's tables. [I'm thinking that Drafting from a Finite Pool would work well in Classic Scape as well, but that's a topic for another time - and thread.] I am eagerly looking forward to the kinds of surprises that the interactions of powers in Under the Canopy will bring. For instance,

Will the combination of Ka-Zar's Big Game Tracker and King of the Jungle (the latter on a Map containing Jungle terrain)

give him a decisive edge over a thug like Radioactive Man?

How will Jackel's Experimental Cloning work out? Is Radioactive Man the best subject?

Or perhaps Killer Croc?

Will Swamp Thing be as tough in this environment as I thought he would be?

Will my last-to-be-drafted Swordsman be the biggest surprise of all?

All of these questions, and more, will be answered - anon . . .

[Tornado]

Will Werewolf ruin Jackal's Cloning?

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

How did you choose the units you included in each point category? How did the 100 point units fare?

One of 2 strategies developed.


1. If 2 or more of your opponents are loading up on Heavy hitters, activate the lowest to take pot shots. You would be surprised how much damage fodder can do when there are no reprisals.


2. When there was only 1 400 point figure left, we ganged up on him, same at the 300 and 200 point level. When you get to the dregs it is basically one or two really battered 200 or 300 point figure left and a bunch of low level figures at full strength.

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by wriggz

One of 2 strategies developed.


1. If 2 or more of your opponents are loading up on Heavy hitters, activate the lowest to take pot shots. You would be surprised how much damage fodder can do when there are no reprisals.


2. When there was only 1 400 point figure left, we ganged up on him, same at the 300 and 200 point level. When you get to the dregs it is basically one or two really battered 200 or 300 point figure left and a bunch of low level figures at full strength.

Well met!

A 4 Player Pool (Snake Draft) Game for you:

Judge Death Must Die!

~400:

~300









~200












~100

Note that the Player that chooses first (probably taking Kang) will probably also end up with Judge Death (unless someone Quixotically takes him first), against whom so many have bonuses, as he will draft last on the ~300 point level. Ghost Rider and Hellboy, as Demons, have bullseyes painted on them, even though Hellboy himself is advantaged against his own kind. Lots of Magical Defense supports a supernatural theme. The ~100 point level consists of useful support characters.

P.S.: Just started a thread for 16 Card Pools called The 16 Card Pool Thread.

[Tornado]

Judge Death is easily the worst card in that pool. He is worthless without other Undead Heroes. I find it funny he is in the 300 point group when he cannot hold a candle to the 200 point figures.

Here is a bit of synergy that you may have overlooked though.

Ghost Rider and Judge Death. If they are on the same team and Death dies first, his figure goes on to the card of the figure that destroyed him via Penance Stare. If that figure then destroys another figure, Death returns!

A little weird synergy I have been wanting to try for awhile now.

Ghost Rider is my favorite character and card. I once destroyed Thor on OM1 of round 2 with Penance Stare backed by Fate's Helm of Nabu. Plus being Large he is immune to a lot of annoying powers.

Selene is very strong. Scarlet Witch is brutal vs. some of those figures.
Spawn can be nearly indestructible, especially in the end game with his healing.

Some cool counters in there, though you did not need Undead slayers as Death is completely terrible. I think we assessed his value around 120 points without his re-spawn power. With no Undead Heroes his SA looses a good chunk of its value easily dropping him to around 100 points.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

"Judge Death is easily the worst card in that pool. He is worthless without other Undead Heroes. I find it funny he is in the 300 point group when he cannot hold a candle to the 200 point figures.

Here is a bit of synergy that you may have overlooked though.

Ghost Rider and Judge Death. If they are on the same team and Death dies first, his figure goes on to the card of the figure that destroyed him via Penance Stare. If that figure then destroys another figure, Death returns!

A little weird synergy I have been wanting to try for awhile now.

Ghost Rider is my favorite character and card. I once destroyed Thor on OM1 of round 2 with Penance Stare backed by Fate's Helm of Nabu. Plus being Large he is immune to a lot of annoying powers.

Selene is very strong. Scarlet Witch is brutal vs. some of those figures. Spawn can be nearly indestructible, especially in the end game with his healing.

Some cool counters in there, though you did not need Undead slayers as Death is completely terrible. I think we assessed his value around 120 points without his re-spawn power. With no Undead Heroes his SA looses a good chunk of its value easily dropping him to around 100 points."

The title is Judge Death Must Die! for a reason. But I did not read his re-spawn Power closely enough. Swapped out Buffy and Brother Voodoo for Living Mummy and Angel (Liam).

"Ghost Rider and Judge Death." I overlooked this, too.

Thanks for the comments! Forming a drafting strategy could be tricky. I would be loath to draft Judge Death without having first drafted an Undead Hero. The Undead Heroes (Living Mummy and Angel (Liam)) are not as useful (or cool) as Blade and Maleketh, so I wouldn't draft either of them as counters to Judge Death, but I wouldn't want to risk counting on my opponents to feel the same way.

In your system, if I drafted 4th in the first round, I'd have to take Judge Death and, subsequently, any Undead Hero I could get. In a general Snake draft (drafting 4th), wouldn't it be wiser to skip Judge Death, and take Blade or Maleketh, instead?

[Tornado]

Yeah, Death always seems good when first read but all of his abilities have serious limitations.

That change certainly makes Judge Death better but the other players can still hamstring Death by drafting Mummy and Angel. I guess that is part of the drafting fun.

Even if there were a ton of Undead the best way to deal with Death is to simply not destroy him. Ideally put 3-4 wounds on him to knock out his Teleport and leave him floundering, destroy him last.

If you destroy Death you are playing right into his bony hands.

The other Dark Judges go a long way in making Death worth playing. Once Fire is complete, they will be a nice little faction and you can put all your OMs on Death to lead them and dare your opponent to kill Death.

If you guys figure out something good about Death, I would love to hear it, especially if the Ghost Rider trick works out.

Death, Ghost Rider, Mummy & Angel may be able to survive for a little while.

If I had Death I would teleport him to low ground where the enemy can attack him easily and never ever put an OM on him.