Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[Revdyer]

Well, I got the chance to do some real play on Tursan Run by yagyuninja and Spiral Turrets by Mooseman. They are both, in their own way, very enjoyable maps and, oddly, quite similar. Each has a central causeway and mirror image areas on either side; and they both play in somewhat similar ways.

Tursan Run does produce a very fast engagement and the fight over the central glyph is always going to be fierce. This is a fun feature in a game-night map, but I fear would get tedious and limiting in a tournament setting. There just is not too much to do on this map but rush toward the center or wait in ambush for the other person to rush toward it.

Tursan Run looks great, by the way, and I enjoyed playing on it. But I'm voting NO because of the limitations imposed by that central glyph and the battle for it.

So that brings us to Spiral Turrets. Again, a central battle area (this time a bridge) with two mirrored features to either side. Again a glyph (this time a random one) in the middle of the bridge. This is a visually stunning map and makes a great impression while still being quite easy to set up. I really like that. But the turrets, which give the map its name, are not very useful very often. They are great hiding places for KMAs or such, but require a lot of turn-energy to use and are not, I fear, going to be judged all that advantageous very often. That means that, once more, we're down to a battle for the glyph in the middle of the bridge, or, if it is a low value one, to just a battle in the middle of the bridge. Either way, that's the usual way the map is going to play, I think. The turrets, while very pretty, turned out to be just too difficult and costly in terms of movement, usually, to use. We also found it easier for one side (the one with the shorter ruin) to get to the bridge initially than for the other. This was only a one hex difference, but that can be decisive in a game, of course.

So, alas, my vote here is NO as well.

I want to emphasize that these are both fun maps and sit nicely on a table. I would enjoy playing on them casually any time. They just are not what I think a tournament map needs to be.

Thank you for sharing them, yagyuninja and Mooseman.

[Soul Shackle]

After some good playtesting this weekend, I'd like to nominate Stechavan Outskirts.

[Gomolka]

Originally Posted by Soul Shackle

After some good playtesting this weekend, I'd like to nominate Stechavan Outskirts.

This map looks pretty good, and I might have to playtest this map a little. It appeals to me for some reason. The only thing I don't understand is the placement of the ruins. Yes, it blocks out everything from 3/4 sides (one being the end of the map), but then again, you have to make two moves around it just to get out. I like the glyph placement, and the placement of the trees too. Also, the roads going alongside the high ground gives players the options of 1.) Take the high ground, 2.) take the road to your opponent's side, or 3.) Go for the glyph and protect it.

Nice nomination.

[Soul Shackle]

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[Jonathan]

Aren't we supposed to take these sidebar discussions to the mapmaker's thread instead of talking about it here?

[Soul Shackle]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Aren't we supposed to take these sidebar discussions to the mapmaker's thread instead of talking about it here?

Yes, someone complimented me so I wanted to respond, though.

You are correct - apologies.

EDIT: In fact, deleted.

[RobertDD]

I'd like to throw something at you all. Shouldn't all tournament maps provide starting spaces that allow you to set up all HeroScape creatures? At least a few of the BoV maps do not allow for the Marro Hive to be used on it, because there is just no way to place it in the starting spaces. There either is not enough same level space, or there are ruins that prevent Marro Hive from being placed. Usually it looks like the fixes that need to be made to accomodate the Hive are small.

In Battle at the Border in RI I decided against playing Marro Hive for fear of losing it if I could not place it. Afterwards I was glad I did, because in at least two games I would have (lost it).

So here's my question: Should one of the criteria of a BoV be that all creatures from HeroScape fit in the starting hexes?

[LongHeroscaper]

Originally Posted by RobertDD

I'd like to throw something at you all. Shouldn't all tournament maps provide starting spaces that allow you to set up all HeroScape creatures? At least a few of the BoV maps do not allow for the Marro Hive to be used on it, because there is just no way to place it in the starting spaces. There either is not enough same level space, or there are ruins that prevent Marro Hive from being placed. Usually it looks like the fixes that need to be made to accomodate the Hive are small.

In Battle at the Border in RI I decided against playing Marro Hive for fear of losing it if I could not place it. Afterwards I was glad I did, because in at least two games I would have (lost it).

So here's my question: Should one of the criteria of a BoV be that all creatures from HeroScape fit in the starting hexes?

That is a good point that map creators should consider. As fas as I can tell about the maps in BoV that do not allow the Hive to be put in the starting zone, those maps were created before the Hive was out. But I think from now on, the Hive should be considered when the starting zone was assigned.

[Dread Pirate Fooflesnort]

Originally Posted by LongHeroscaper

That is a good point that map creators should consider. As fas as I can tell about the maps in BoV that do not allow the Hive to be put in the starting zone, those maps were created before the Hive was out. But I think from now on, the Hive should be considered when the starting zone was assigned.

I also second this motion.

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by LongHeroscaper

That is a good point that map creators should consider. As fas as I can tell about the maps in BoV that do not allow the Hive to be put in the starting zone, those maps were created before the Hive was out. But I think from now on, the Hive should be considered when the starting zone was assigned.

This is something we are well aware of. Long is correct in that the maps were made prior to the Hive. We have made the recognition that going forward we must take this into account. We will be adding review information, items of note, and play recommendations for each BoV map. The maps that present challenges to the Hive will be noted with possible recommendations for work around. All of the BoV maps will, of course , remain in the BoV. We will be cognizant in the future.

EDIT - Upon further review, Fire Isles in it's whirlwind induction to the BoV is a map that does not accommodate the Hive. We, as judges, did over look this in our review process. As stated above, we will be more cognizant. Look for Updates to the BoV display and download areas soon.

[Revdyer]

Let me "Amen" what Rychaen has said. Most often (with the exception of Fire Isles, I think) simply removing a ruin will then accommodate the Hive. In future some additional ruling may well be needed to say that starting zones need to be "Hive friendly" for a map to be considered for review. (We're not quite to the new rule stage yet in our discussions.)

[Elstree]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Let me "Amen" what Rychaen has said. Most often (with the exception of Fire Isles, I think) simply removing a ruin will then accommodate the Hive. In future some additional ruling may well be needed to say that starting zones need to be "Hive friendly" for a map to be considered for review. (We're not quite to the new rule stage yet in our discussions.)

If I may make a suggestion, I see three options for TDs for this problem:

1. If you can't place the hive, the hive is lost.
2. If you can't place the hive you may attach it to the edge of the map adjacent to your starting zone. In this case, its six spaces still count against the 24 in your starting zone.
3. If the ruin is in the way, you may remove the ruin from your starting zone in order to place your hive.

Whatever rule a TD selects ought to be made public before the tournament so players can decide for themselves if it's worth bringing a hive army.