Anti-DnDScape?

[PHippo]

So much for healing any wounds or bridgeing gaps here. Do we really need to have this argument anymore?

If you like DnD scape then buy the products and enjoy (There are some pretty cool ones), if you would like to see more classic then I suggest you channel your frustration in a more constructive manner (the link in my sig is a great way to start). There is no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds.

[Captain Xavious]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

Some people have stuff like this in their sigs:

That kind of thing will tend to draw fire from the community it supposedly represents.

Besides, any claim that the designers have not been highly creative/innovative/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is so stupid that it deserves to get flamed.

No offense.

edit: And on message boards, there are two audiences. First, the other guy, whose mind will rarely be changed about anything, and second, the readers, who deserve to hear a complete argument. Going in circles is bad, but fully expressing a point is good.

Oh, I understand where you're coming from, but it is a good way to derail a perfectly good debate into something... not quite perfectly good. :P

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by PHippo

So much for healing any wounds or bridgeing gaps here. Do we really need to have this argument anymore?

If you like DnD scape then buy the products and enjoy (There are some pretty cool ones), if you would like to see more classic then I suggest you channel your frustration in a more constructive manner (the link in my sig is a great way to start). There is no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds.

White Noise is entitled to his opinion that the designers were not creative, and he is entitled to his opinion that the direction of the game is driving players away.

Well, I miss the SF and historical figs as much as the next guy, but based on my conversations with retailers and new players, D&D is either at worst not on their radar or, for the retailers, something they can really work with and hope to sell better than HS has been selling before. And if I wanted I could go to any one of a number of FLGS and buy Warriors of Ashra/Deathreavers, or Wolves/10th, and not have to deal with D&D. Maybe when the FLGS are out of "classic" 'Scape there will be some interest in making more...

And as far as the quality of the work done by designers, White Noise's premise that there is not room for creativity in what they do is offensive. The designers & playtesters won't come on to this thread and say it, nor should they, but suggesting that there isn't room for creativity in how they interpret preexisting creatures is wrong and a slap in the face. There is no artistry in interpretation? Really?

Originally Posted by Captain Xavious

Oh, I understand where you're coming from, but it is a good way to derail a perfectly good debate into something... not quite perfectly good. :P

Oh, I disagree. A perfectly good debate doesn't have to be nice.

[clancampbell]

I'm not pointing at any one person here. However, there seems to be some folks who are quick to attempt to dismiss the claims of the so called anti-D&Ders, out of hand. In as much as the anti-D&Ders are slammed for their "constant negativity", there are those pro-D&Ders who seem all to quick to defend it.

Are the designers doing a good job? Yes. Even I, the "king of anti-D&Ders" can see this. However, again, there are those that are so quick to heap praise upon the design team, that any small percived slight on their honor is quickly met with swift hand of justice. (Justice in their eyes) Too bad that the slight didn't exsist, or was not intended. I've seen folks simply say "I liked wave 9 better than D&D, and they get slammed, for being unsupportive.

Everyone has their own opinions. Some don't exactly jive with the majority, but hey, thats how that person feels.

Love D&D, hate D&D, don't care, whatever your feelings are, here we are. A full year removed from the original announcement of D&D, and it remains the most hotly debated topic on this message board. It has become, and remains, the single most divisive subject on these boards. That is a bad thing. No matter your feelings towards D&D, it has divided us.

[jschild]

Originally Posted by clancampbell

I'm not pointing at any one person here. However, there seems to be some folks who are quick to attempt to dismiss the claims of the so called anti-D&Ders, out of hand. In as much as the anti-D&Ders are slammed for their "constant negativity", there are those pro-D&Ders who seem all to quick to defend it.

Are the designers doing a good job? Yes. Even I, the "king of anti-D&Ders" can see this. However, again, there are those that are so quick to heap praise upon the design team, that any small percived slight on their honor is quickly met with swift hand of justice. (Justice in their eyes) Too bad that the slight didn't exsist, or was not intended. I've seen folks simply say "I liked wave 9 better than D&D, and they get slammed, for being unsupportive.

Everyone has their own opinions. Some don't exactly jive with the majority, but hey, thats how that person feels.

Love D&D, hate D&D, don't care, whatever your feelings are, here we are. A full year removed from the original announcement of D&D, and it remains the most hotly debated topic on this message board. It has become, and remains, the single most divisive subject on these boards. That is a bad thing. No matter your feelings towards D&D, it has divided us.

To be fair, no one got slammed for saying wave 9 was better. It was in response to me saying D1 and D2 have been one of the best waves yet to which this was partially said...

I'm not taking anything away from the design team, but man, Wave 9 is one of the best waves EVER! I'm shocked to think that people would think D1 and D2 can hold a candle to it.

Then it was mentioned the same design team did that wave as well (and W 9 is also among my favorite waves). They weren't attacked for not being supportive enough.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by clancampbell

I've seen folks simply say "I liked wave 9 better than D&D, and they get slammed, for being unsupportive.

Hi Clan.

I wouldn't have & didn't give you a hard time over that and if people prefer chocolate or vanilla or Wave 2 or 5 or whatever I don't care. But my antenna do go up when people start presuming to speak for the community when they don't, or when people start going after the designers, who as you say are doing a great job but can't/won't/shouldn't come to this thread to defend themselves.

It *had* been quiet for awhile. This thread was ill-advised, no doubt.

I have no argument with you, go ahead and say you want the return of robots and historical figs. So do I. I don't dislike the new stuff as you do, but that's fine. Neither one of us presumes to speak for the community.

[Rich10]

If you like the product, buy it. If you don't, spend your hard earned dollars elsewhere.

[White Noise]

Originally Posted by clancampbell

Are the designers doing a good job? Yes. Even I, the "king of anti-D&Ders" can see this. However, again, there are those that are so quick to heap praise upon the design team, that any small percived slight on their honor is quickly met with swift hand of justice. (Justice in their eyes) Too bad that the slight didn't exsist, or was not intended. I've seen folks simply say "I liked wave 9 better than D&D, and they get slammed, for being unsupportive.

Although I suspect some of that is just backlash from when d&d hate was rampant earlier in the year. I give it a month or two, then things will (hopefully) settle down to a happy medium, unless someone decides to start up another thread like this one (which will inevitably dissolve into a flamewar unless cooler heads prevail).

Honestly, though, why do people get angry over seeing anti-d&d sentiments in a thread entitiled "Anti-D&DScape"?

No matter your feelings towards D&D, it has divided us.

Amen. I think this'll go in my sig.

[Dad_Scaper]

You didn't understand my point, White Noise, or you chose to drop it. Either way is fine.

There is an ocean of difference between what Clan has written in the last couple of pages and what you have posted in the last couple of pages.

I do prefer your new sig to your old one, for sure.

[White Noise]

I let it go. There's no point in arguing and I have better things to do with my time.

[kolakoski]

The most interesting new point that has been made in the last couple of weeks or so ago, was an observation made by a guy who was just getting into the game, and knew nothing of pre-D&D 'scape. He said there was a marked difference about how willing they were to accept change. Of course, one could also compare them to Tsarist Russian peasants, who had no basis of comparison and were too ignorant to risk their meager existences, in a rebellion not a religion , on some promise of a better life afterwards. But I digress . . .

The point is that those who are coming to the game for the first time are mad about the game as-is, with all the old waves a wonderful bonus to the game they know and love. I'm sorry old-timers (and, thanks to chas, I am one in more than just age ), but that is the near future of Heroscape. Hopefully, through integration or addition, I hope that the aliens and robots ideas of your (and our) imagination are realized. But, in the meantime, I hope that you can put aside your bitterness (by an act of will, it will not recede on its own, I don't think), and embrace fully all that is positive about the play and players of our magnificent obsession! (Thank you . . . Thank you . . . Thank you!)

Please . . . Please . . . Please won't you decide to try to be happy?

I feel like an idiot here, but I just hate to see anyone suffer, and if there is anything I can say to convince anyone who is unable to let go of whatever is preventing his/her from the pure joy that can be had in playing 'scape in its current incarnation, I, a one-time evangelist who ought to know better , can nevertheless not resist the call to speak.

[DrAwsm]

I find it silly that, after 7 pages of debate, people are still posting about hating/loving DnD 'Scape. No one said DnD was taking over; it has its own line of minis anyway. No one said "classic" was gone forever. IMHO, I think that a game of any sort should never have to go through what HS has. In the video game industry, a revision is pretty much ALWAYS accepted with open arms. I think that WotC thought that HS was falling a bit in sales, so it decided to add some new stuff to the mix to keep the sales alive. Who wouldn't? This whole debate is silly, and anybody who wants to continue this endless arguing can do it through PMs or something, but not in a thread where everybody has to keep listening to the constant arguing. If you like DnD 'Scape, great. If you don't, that's your opinion. But I think the majority of us here just want to play 'Scape.

That's my two cents anyway.