Demons/ghosts and religion

[Wonderball68]

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

I have a question, what does ninja'd mean? And I'm just referring to the same old argument time after time: Evolution is right. I have replied to that a lot, but people keep on posting it. Same thing with the spontaneous generation thing.

If I am ninja'd, it means as I was typing my post, somebody posted the same thing before I clicked "post reply".

But I wasn't actually ninja'd, because I don't see what I posted that is so similar to your post. Sure, I'm argueing the same point, but I rephrased it, provided different examples, etc.

[Chardris1287]

ninja'd means, someone posted a response to a question before you were able to finish your response. (I.E. someone posts a question, I know the answer so I go to post a response. But once I'm finished I see someone else had already answered it, I have just been ninja'd.)
-edit- see, wonderball just ninj'ad me.

[TGRF]

Because this thread is poking at religion it's gonna be locked, just like the gay marrige tread, just like the atheist thread, just like the NY mosque thread... My beliefs
Ghosts- no
demons-no
religion- not to fond of it. Exactly how did evolution spring up into this? Because someone didn't believe in ghosts, they must believe in evoltion? That's like jumping from point A to point F without stopping off at B, C, D, or E. I heard mention thta it's ridiculous the Earth formed by "mere chance" is that so bad? even if it's a 0.001% chance that life could spontaneously spring into existence, does not mean it's impossible or less meaningful. Why does someone have to be a scientist to post facts and evidence that have already been proven by other people who actually are scientists. Not being able to quote a scientist when you aren't one, is like not being able to preach the gospel, if you aren't a preacher.

Wow. That was about the best sum up of something I've seen in years. As soon as I have a little rep power You'll be getting it (+ in case you're wondering). Even though you don't agree with my view, these are opinions. I love it! Great post!
EDIT: This is so hilarious. I wasn't Ninja'd, but three new comments cropped up while I was typing.

[Rich10]

Just for kicks, from my own personal beliefs...
God - yes
demons - no
devil - probably not
hell - probably not and not in the traditional sense
ghosts - no
evolution - its the best theory that we have

These threads convince people of nothing. They get people riled up. Ultimately, these threads get locked.

[TGRF]

Just for kicks, from my own personal beliefs...
God - yes
demons - no
devil - probably not
hell - probably not and not in the traditional sense
ghosts - no
evolution - its the best theory that we have

These threads convince people of nothing. They get people riled up. Ultimately, these threads get locked.

Wait. How can you believe in God but not the Devil? Don't the two kinda go together? Also, how can yu believe in both God and evolution. That's sort of like saying, "I believe that God created the world, but I also believe that it evolved all by itself." It doesn't make sense. Please clarify. Thanks.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

Wait. How can you believe in God but not the Devil? Don't the two kinda go together? Also, how can yu believe in both God and evolution. That's sort of like saying, "I believe that God created the world, but I also believe that it evolved all by itself." It doesn't make sense. Please clarify. Thanks.

I doubt he'll clarify...

Religion and evolution can go together. There is a ton of evidence to support it. And evolution, by it's definition, does happen, and it's proven to.

God can certainly use evolution if He wants to. Just because something makes you think about a subject in a different way doesn't make it wrong.

[Mnygaard]

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

Oh dear. (snip)
Allow me...
Step 1: are you a scientist? (I am not)
Step 2: The evidence for God far outways the 'evidence' for evolution. Think about it. Take a leaf. Now according to evolution, this leaf evolved bit by bit. The chlorophyll has to react pe3rfectly with the leaf and sunlight in order to produce the glucose needed. One little part of it is not quite evolved? BOOM! The leaf dies. No leaves. Minor detail.
Step 3. Yeah, evolution has been tested. Biosphere 2 couldn't be run by a very large, very experienced group of scientists, and evolutionists still insist that the world occurred by mere chance, with no master mind behind it? Give me a break! I mean, how absurd can you get?
Step 4. Believing in evolution forces you to believe that a hurricane could go through the Okefenokee and come up with Vancouver. I'm serious. That is the equivalent of what evolutionists are proposing. It would be even harder to come up with a single cell that wouldn't die in half a second.

"Oh dear" indeed...
Here's my answers
Step 1: No. That doesn't mean I can't know things about it. Funny thing is that people with faith seem to talk with absolute conviction about things they can't possibly KNOW anything about. They can believe and have faith, but they don't know anything about god or his creations.
Step 2: That's just plain wrong. Photosynthesis in leaves is a very primitive process that evolved from even more primitive processes. It's not even very effective (so if god did it, he didn't do a very good job), but plants make up for that by repeating the process thousands upon thousands of times.
Step 3: Don't know about Biosphere2, so I can't comment. However, the origin of life (which is completely different from evolution) IS probably unlikely. But why should an unlikely event automatically entail something supernatural? Are all lottery winners blessed by one deity or another?
Step 4: Why is that? It took a very long time for life to evolve and most of that time was spend evolving single cells (almost 2 billion of the 3 billion years we've had life). Evolution takes one small step at a time. It doesn't just jump from one species to the next. That's why it's called evolution.

If you are geniunely interested in understanding evolution, read "The Greatest Show on Earth" - it explains the biological processes so a layman can understand it.

[delphic]

Heaven, Hell, Ghosts, Demons, Angels, the Devil, are all intangible human created concepts to counter what we do not understand. Thats our short coming not "Gods".

For example, there are a pile of folks who believe in Creationism.

It took 5 billion years of astrological evolution just to make the elements we consist of, millions of years of evolution, thousands of variable to our existence. Creationism just seems to short change the true accomplishment.

Right now there is a point where science might just prove the existence of a "God". The "Big Bang", what created it, what spawned the universe? Everything makes sense up until about nanosecond after that point, then our understanding breaks down and we are forced to consider a "Creator".

Bottom line, Science or Religion, we haven't got it right yet.

Until you can invent faster then light travel, catch up with the light created at the big bang and actually witness the creation point, we are stuck, with Mythos, conjecture, theory, Ghosts, Demons, Angels and Cathulu.

Delphic

[CapnRedChops]

What I don't get with all the 'God created everything as it is' folks is, why couldn't God create evolution? If his (using his for convenience only) wisdom and intelligence is infinite, why is there not the remotest chance that he created a self sustaining system that could deal with change without his direct intervention?

And what's with the certainty of the God Squad? This version of pre history is wrong - this is right - the Bible's myth stories are 100% true... (hence the creationism) no one can actually know these things for certain. You can believe the Adam and Eve myth is just that, a myth, and still have a perfectly solid belief in a Christian God.

Unless you know the mind of God (and if you did I assume you wouldn't be posting in argumentative threads on discussion forums - surely you'd be doing something more productive), you can't say that "That's the way things are" you can only say "That's what I believe to be true."

CRC

[jschild]

Originally Posted by Frylock

And yet all that evidence still can't explain the very cornerstone of the theory: macroevolution.

EDIT: Or for that matter, how life came from non-life. Gee, if only proving evolution was as easy as explaining snakes with legs...

Ummm, evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life. That's Abiogenesis.

And evidence for so-called "macroevolution" (which isn't even a biology term but a Creationist one, is quite substantial. Anyway, if a snake was created as is, there is no reason for them to have the DNA markers to grow legs, same for whales and feet, and humans and tails. Plus, is God really that bad of a designer that he let blind spots in our vision and nerves 20x longer than necessary be put in?

If you want to get wordsy with me, that's fine. I understand that they are two different issues. However, I think it's safe to say that the two are closely related. Do people who believe in evolution have a different theory besides abiogenesis to explain how life began?

Evolution first of all, doesn't require abiogenesis. It's how species differentiate. And since we've shown only about a trillion times that complexity can rise from non-complexity, that the basic building blocks of life are strewn throughout the universe, this is broad support for abiogenesis. However, what does that have to do with evolution is beyond me.

Step 2: The evidence for God far outways the 'evidence' for evolution. Think about it. Take a leaf. Now according to evolution, this leaf evolved bit by bit. The chlorophyll has to react pe3rfectly with the leaf and sunlight in order to produce the glucose needed. One little part of it is not quite evolved? BOOM! The leaf dies. No leaves. Minor detail.

Please read talkorigins.org - that stuff is quite easily debunked but requires a large amount of reading to get into.

Step 3. Yeah, evolution has been tested. Biosphere 2 couldn't be run by a very large, very experienced group of scientists, and evolutionists still insist that the world occurred by mere chance, with no master mind behind it? Give me a break! I mean, how absurd can you get?

Biosphere 2? It had nothing to do with evolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2
Please read up on something before you claim it's proof of something not even being tested. And again, you're confusing abiogenesis with evolution. The 2 are very seperate.

Step 4. Believing in evolution forces you to believe that a hurricane could go through the Okefenokee and come up with Vancouver. I'm serious. That is the equivalent of what evolutionists are proposing. It would be even harder to come up with a single cell that wouldn't die in half a second.

If you were aware of the very basics of biology you would know that complexity arises from simplicity all the time. There is no breaking the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics because the Earth is not a closed system.

It's spontaneous generation... an idea that is wrong. Flies come from dead meat? No, really, it's thesame thing.

First of all, no it's not. It's chemistry (like Hydrogen and Oxygen reacting to create a molecule which is more complex than either element to create water). Abiogenesis has NOTHING to do with evolution nor does evolution require abiogenesis to work.

Tons of evidence? There should be millions of "missing-link" skeletons and fossils. Lucys and Ardis should be all over the place. But they're not.

First, fossilization is rare, second we do have tons of those fossils you speak of. Next?

Wait. How can you believe in God but not the Devil? Don't the two kinda go together?

The Jew's didn't seem to have a problem with it.

Also, how can yu believe in both God and evolution.

Very easily. God set the wheels in motion and created all the rules by which the universe work. Those rules, one of them being evolution, lead to us as an omnipotent god would know.

[Chardris1287]

Wait. How can you believe in God but not the Devil? Don't the two kinda go together? Also, how can yu believe in both God and evolution

Your mistake is assuming everyone who is religeous is of the Christian religion. Because this is the internet, and people come from all sorts of different cultures there could very likely be people from other religions. Like JS child mentioned, the old testament didn't have a hell or a devil.

People can believe in anything if they put enough spin on it so that it conforms with their way of thinking, and make sense.

Do I believe in Evolution? Yes. Does that mean I'm right? No. But I'd rather believe that the creatures of today changed over millions of years, instead of just popping into existence one day.

[braveheart101]

Since nobody can seem to talk about this kinda stuff with out getting PO'ed at each other, IMHO, locking this thread might be a good idea.

Whatever happened to coexisting?

Bravey