Unit Debate #15 -- Nilfheim Vs. Braxas

[Quintaton16]

Great job, Einar's puppy for suggesting this debate. Both of these dragons are fearsome foes to face on a field of combat, and both combine similar abilities with slight variations that make them quite different.

The real difference between the two of them is the all-important but still fairly nebulous "flexibility" factor. Normally I am not a huge fan of "flexible" units. I prefer a very clear-cut definition of what a unit is good at and what it is not; it makes theoryscape much easier and gives me a clear definition of what I need to put alongside it in an army. However, when the unit, like Braxas or Nilfheim, takes up such a large part of the army, it becomes much more important for the unit to be able to do different things.

Braxas is by far the more situational unit. She is good because of her Halitosis and the mobility which allows her to use it well. She is also fairly hard to take down, so should take out many units before her death. What makes Braxas so scary is the current metagame and its bias toward defense. Defence, however, means nothing to Braxas. She can kill a pretty dependable 2 figures a turn no matter what the opponent does.

Nilfheim is a more versatile unit. He can deliver a whopping 12 dice per turn with Ice Shard, or he can use his 6 die normal attack against heros. Nilfheim is also easier to counter than Braxas, though. Braxas is the most popular unit that uses the d20 almost exclusively, so she is almost in a class by herself in the tournament scene, but Nilfheim's ability is a mere special attack, and as IAmBatman pointed out, it can be quite easy to keep one figure engaged and take away 8 of his 12 dice. Nilfheim is also susceptible to the metagame and Raelin. He is less cowardly than Braxas, though, and can use his ability on large units as well as small ones.

On the whole, I give Braxas the advantage against squads, and Nilf the advantage head-to-head and against heroes. Even though versatility is important, what I really prefer in a unit is to do one thing and do it very well.

Final advantage: Braxas

-Q16

[Zarovichx]

I like Braxas better because her special power isn't ruined if based and it is more useful on squads like minions, sentinels, agents etc. Braxas also fits into more places than Nilfheim, Nilfheim is very limited when it comes to places he can physically fit into. Personally I think Braxas looks just as cool as Nilfheim too. Finally, I like the fact that Braxas has 8 life, it can help make up for the lack of defense dice that Nilfheim has over her.

[rednax]

Was to busy arguing about Zelrig, Mimring, and Charos to do my whole argument for these guys.

Here goes:

1. Stats/Special Powers Both have good survivability, both are hard to conceal, both have good attack, both are fast, and both have the option to take out multiple units.

Advantage: Tie

2. Playability Nilfheim's cheaper cost keeps him more playable, as well as the fact he doesn't rely on the D20, or the fact that he's facing medium/small figures.

Advantage: Nilfheim

3. Overall Usefulness First off, thanks for spelling Usefulness correctly this time Megasilver. Nilfheim in a game can take out a bunch of squads and several heroes. Braxas can take out probably more squads, but less heroes.

Advantage: Tie

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head Nilfheim's extra attack and defense would probably beat Braxas's 2 extra life, but it's pretty close.

Advantage: Nilfheim

5. Army Builds Nilfheim's most favorite build is probably with Knights and Gilbert, but both can be used in just about any build. Rats help both of these units a lot.

Advantage: Tie

6. Best Strategic Use 1. Fly. 2. Decimate. Braxas is better at taking out squads, and Nilfheim against heroes. However, the fact that Braxas can't use her Acid Breath on Large/Huge figures is what makes Nilfheim the better option.

Advantage: Nilfheim

Winner: Nilfheim

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by rednax

Good job with this debate Megasilver, I mean EP . This is probably the most even dragon debate. Nilfheim/Braxas is greater than Zelrig, who is greater than Charos, who is greater than Mimring.

I went Nilfheim because 1. He's cheaper. 2. He has more defense. 3. Has a better sculpt 4. Follows Jandar.

Who submitted the next debate, Megasilver?

I thought of the next debate. That is why no one's name is mentioned.

And no guess? I'm surprised.

MegaSilver, Unit Debate Master

[Warlord Alpha]

It's pretty obvious it's some kind of Hivelord based debate. Marrvelous leaders. Maybe you did TBR vs NGS? NGS vs MBS? Those are the only real possibilities.

[rednax]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I thought of the next debate. That is why no one's name is mentioned.

And no guess? I'm surprised.
MegaSilver, Unit Debate Master

Oh sorry. I though it was pretty obvious. NGS vs. MBS. I thought about Tul-Bak-Ra, but there's no competition there.

~Rednax, who admits that at first glance, it looked like Marvel was going to get their first debate. At second glance, he saw the two r's.

[Sokol]

Initially I thought Braxas was the better dragon, but for the reasons many of you mentioned, I have to choose Nilfheim.

[Knight of Feylund]

Originally Posted by Xn F M

And he has a ranged special attack that's arguably more useful than Zelrig's.

Mimring > Charos.

On topic, I almost want to vote for Braxas just because I get more graons and dirty looks when I draft her.

If charos gets engaged with mimring, mimring is a dead dragon.

[Brownsfan82]

1. Stats/Special Powers
Braxas- Surpasses high defense medium figures, also surpasses engagement

Nilfeim- Can attack all figures in the game with his special even large figures, but can not attack other figures when he is engaged

Tie
2. Playability
I've played both in tournaments and did well with both. I actually won a tourney with Braxas.

Tie

3. Overall Usefulness
In the days of medium/small figure swarms with Raelin, I think Braxas wins.

Edge Braxas
4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head
Obviously Nilfeim with a higher base attack and defense. Braxas has 2 more life, but one-on-one, it doesn't help much.

Edge Nilfeim

5. Army Builds
Nilfeim is cheaper. It leaves more points for the rest of the army. Both can be added to any army build. Both are strong with deathreavers.

Edge Nilfeim
6. Best Strategic Use
Nilfeim: Try to take out a hosscat like Q9 or try to stay disengaged and kill as many squad figures.

Braxas: Has the ability to take down hard to kill figures with his attack of five, but is best used to destroy threatening squad figures and a few medium sized heroes when no other squad figures are around.

Edge Braxas



Overall tie, but Braxas is more fun. I voted Braxas

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Warlord Alpha

It's pretty obvious it's some kind of Hivelord based debate. Marrvelous leaders. Maybe you did TBR vs NGS? NGS vs MBS? Those are the only real possibilities.

I could see TKN vs. SBN vs. WSG or something like that. MBS could be in the discussion with NGS and KMS.

ABC. It's easy as 123.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Knight of Feylund

If charos gets engaged with mimring, mimring is a dead dragon.

And if Charos doesn't get engaged with Mimring, Charos is a dead dragon! For 60 points less, I'll take my chances that I can keep Mimring (8 range, 6 move flying) away from Charos (1 range, 5 move flying) long enough to make up the difference.
As to the Braxas, Nilfheim debate, though I did bring up a major point in the favor of Braxas, and though I do think Braxas has the edge in the most important metagame category (common squaddies backed by Raelin), Nilfheim is still good in that category, and good at more things overall, so that flexibility combined with a lower price point gives him the edge in my book.

[ICEMASTER]

Nilf is a much better unit than Braxas. Though my sisters like her because she's a queen.