George Tiller's Murder

[Drumline3469]

So I don't know how many of you have been following the Tiller scandal in Kansas. Long story short, Tiller was accused of performing super late-term abortions (he is one of the few clinics in the US that still did late-term at all). He was given enough time to dispose of evidence and then brought to trial and acquitted. Not much happened after that until yesterday when he was shot and killed in the foyer of a church that he was ushering at. This blew me away. I didn't like the guy at all, but a cold-blooded murder in the middle of a church?

[Aldin]

It's certainly a mess.

~Aldin, reminding everyone to play nice

[jschild]

Just goes to show that we don't have to go to other countries to find fanatics that are willing to kill to incite fear into people. Nothing new, sad to say.

[Revdyer]

People have long thought that the way to stop other people from killing is to kill them. It is, indeed, most sad.

W. B. Yeats' poem might be appropriate at this point:

The Great Day

Hurrah for revolution and more cannon-shot!
A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot.
Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again!
The beggars have changed places, but the lash goes on.

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by Drumline3469

So I don't know how many of you have been following the Tiller scandal in Kansas. Long story short, Tiller was accused of performing super late-term abortions (he is one of the few clinics in the US that still did late-term at all). He was given enough time to dispose of evidence and then brought to trial and acquitted. Not much happened after that until yesterday when he was shot and killed in the foyer of a church that he was ushering at. This blew me away. I didn't like the guy at all, but a cold-blooded murder in the middle of a church?

The way of the coward. Always was, always will be.

The law of the land states that abortions are legal. To brutally kill a man who chooses to do those procedures won't change anything. I hope the sicko who did it rots in prison for life.

[Buddy Lee]

Originally Posted by Raudulfr Shieldcrusher

The way of the coward. Always was, always will be.

The law of the land states that abortions are legal. To brutally kill a man who chooses to do those procedures won't change anything. I hope the sicko who did it rots in prison for life.

While you are spot-on on the first point, I would disagree on the second point. Abortion was made legal by, IMHO (AND that is a key word - "Opinion"), a very bad supreme court decision that superceeded Constitutional boundries. It created a whole new "right" out of whole clothe that is not found in the Constitution.

My personal views of Abortion aside I think that Roe v Wade was very bad case law built upon a weak foundation.

That being said I do not believe that the solution to stopping an abortionist is to commit murder. Two wrongs do not a right make.

Buddy Lee

[jschild]

But you contradict yourself. It is the law of the land, regardless of whether you like that law or not. Your personal views are not binding or legal so his second point is entirely valid.

You can pretend that law of the land is just the constitution, but it is not. The law of the land is very clear - they are legal. So both points are completely valid.

[Revdyer]

Two United States Army recruiters were killed here in Little Rock today. The news says they were killed "for political and religious reasons."

Sad, but, unfortunately, not rare, I guess.

[Drumline3469]

For some reason, my first thought was that it wouldn't surprise me at all if the murder had somehow stemmed from Fred Phelps and his church of the mis-informed. Like I said, I didn't like the man at all, but we're not the ones to judge; God is. It probably didn't help that they closed down his clinic. That, to me, sends the message that murder can be a solution rather than a temporary patch.

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by jschild

But you contradict yourself. It is the law of the land, regardless of whether you like that law or not. Your personal views are not binding or legal so his second point is entirely valid.

You can pretend that law of the land is just the constitution, but it is not. The law of the land is very clear - they are legal. So both points are completely valid.

Exactly.

[Buddy Lee]

Originally Posted by jschild

But you contradict yourself. It is the law of the land, regardless of whether you like that law or not. Your personal views are not binding or legal so his second point is entirely valid.

You can pretend that law of the land is just the constitution, but it is not. The law of the land is very clear - they are legal. So both points are completely valid.

Yes. Abortion is legal. That is not the point I was arguing. I was making the point that any legal position that has a foundation on CASE LAW (or Legal Precedent) is not really law. The United States Supreme Court could overturn Roe v Wade tomorrow and then where would you be?

They could just as easily overturn Heller v DC, but I would argue that that case was decided upon much stronger Constitutional grounds than Roe v Wade. Keep in mind the only thing that has made Abortion legal on the federal level was a majority opinion of nine men sitting in a building in the center of Washington, DC. Nine other men can just as easily say it isn't so.

Buddy Lee

Edit: I'm am sorry to hear about the deaths of the two reecruiters. As my brother was an Army Recruiter for four years this hits a little close to home. It is a shame that anyone feels they must react with violence to resolve a political dispute. May God comfort and bless ALL families involved in these tragedies.

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by Drumline3469

For some reason, my first thought was that it wouldn't surprise me at all if the murder had somehow stemmed from Fred Phelps and his church of the mis-informed. Like I said, I didn't like the man at all, but we're not the ones to judge; God is. It probably didn't help that they closed down his clinic. That, to me, sends the message that murder can be a solution rather than a temporary patch.

While that may be true for that one particular clinic, women can go somewhere else. So it really isn't any kind of solution at all. All it did was rob a family of a loved one.