Some musings on the new releases

[Tai-Pan]

I was thinking today, about wave 8. And I got to wondering, what would a new Scaper do with Kato Katsuro? That got me to thinking, what would a new Scaper do with a number of units that have come out in the last few waves? Units like Kato, all the flagbearers, Sir Dupuis, Grok Riders, Fyorlag Spiders, Wolves of Badru, etc. lose one or possibly more special abilities if their owner doesn't have certain units. This seems especially prevalent in the newest releases. Fyorlag spiders lose their predator bonding if Sujoah isn't around, but that's not as bad because they came out together. Others, however, are a long way release-time ways away from the units they need. Grok Riders have two (really three, but the Grok Training is more of an inhibition on the hive) powers that rely on previously released units, one of which came with the original master set which is no longer being released (to my knowledge, I apologize if I'm mistaken) and the other came out in wave 2. Another one that reaches bach that far are the Wolves of Badru. The only darklord in the game is Khosumet, and he was released at the same time as Me-Burq-Sa. That is six waves between them! Sir Dupuis and Kato reach back only one wave before they start finding units that work with them, but to get full flexibility out of Kato's power, one must go back to wave 6.

I remember wave one and how well everything worked together. With the release of the first boosters, every unit could use every power, and, with the exception of Grimnak, the units they needed for that power were released at the same time. I was just wondering if perhaps some new Scapers coming to the game would pick up Wave 8, wonder what is going on, and perhaps be discouraged by the lack of needed units.

Now I know that for those of us that have been playing and collecting for a long time, units like those above are incredible and work well for us. Heck, some of them (Wolves of Badru) were almost necessary to breathe new life into some old figures. I think the newest releases feature what look to be like some of the most fun figures to play, but then, I have an almost complete collection (darn Gen-Con exclusives) and I can get full use out of all the figures. I think Wave 8 and TJ/AA are great, but I think we need to be careful so we don't forget the newbs of this world.

[Aldin]

Interesting thoughts, Tai-Pan. I remember using and enjoying Grimnak sans Gruts back in the day, and I think the Wolves of Badru are plenty useful without the Big Dog. Groks are perhaps less so, but scapers with fewer expansions may find that they are a nice unit on their own (without baddies like Q9 and Nilfheim to oppose them). It does seem likely that we'll get another Darklord and another Marro Warlord in the next wave or two though...

~Aldin, thoroughly bonded

[Tai-Pan]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Interesting thoughts, Tai-Pan. I remember using and enjoying Grimnak sans Gruts back in the day, and I think the Wolves of Badru are plenty useful without the Big Dog. Groks are perhaps less so, but scapers with fewer expansions may find that they are a nice unit on their own (without baddies like Q9 and Nilfheim to oppose them). It does seem likely that we'll get another Darklord and another Marro Warlord in the next wave or two though...

~Aldin, thoroughly bonded

Yeah, some of the units are still useful, but when they lose even one special ability, it gets harder to justify their cost. There are some experienced Scapers on here that have trouble justifying the cost for the Groks anyway. And what do you do with Kato when you have no Samurai or Ashigaru? We thought Taelord and Spartacus were bad.

[Unomas]

You buy some of course!! I think that's part of the plan actually.

[Aldin]

When I first got into the game I wasn't playing very competetively at all, just playing fun units to have a good time. Without Ashigaru or Samurai, Kato sits on a shelf or gets house ruled so he can command Marro or some such thing. Competition isn't the only thing - or even the most important one for new players.

~Aldin, who probably won't use Kato much even though he has Samurai and Ashigaru

[DarkBladeCB]

Well, Kato plays with the Ashigaru, which are Wave 7 and therefore readily available. The Elves all play together and are all in this wave. Sir Dupuis goes with the Templar, who're also Wave 7. It's not different than the Swogs or Krug coming in Wave 2 after the Arrow Gruts. You mention the Wolves... what if another Darklord comes out next wave?

I was a n00b not that long ago, with Wave 6, and I think that part of the more obvious synergies make it easier to start your collection. You know what you have and you know what plays well with it, so you can focus your purchases on getting good units that can play well together. For instance, I found an old Wave 5 Blastatron pack and it helped me know to buy the Gladiatrons next chance I got instead of, say, the Greeks. Heroscape's a funny game and a lot of pieces come out in anticipation of other pieces... take Kyntela, for instance. She was a waste in Wave 7, but now, a wave later, she's suddenly useful as a part of an elf army.

[DeadEye]

i sorta agree here,

I mean with Chadris if you dont buy the elves with him he only has a special of 2.....but yeah i see Aldins point how more can shine without the "baddies."

DeadEye

[DarkBladeCB]

Also, having thought about this a little bit more since I made my first post and thinking about my early collection... very few of my figures met their full potential. For instance, my first two boosters were the Wave 6 hero pack and the EI/TSA pack. Coupled with SotM and RotV, Kaemon Awa, the Krav, and the Stingers dominated the board, as would be expected. The games were a hodge podge mess with little synergy. There was no 4th Mass army or a Beast Bonding army and without those synergistic armies, the barometer for the quality of a unit wasn't entirely what it did with other units. Like Aldin said, it's a different mindset and a different game. I turned out OK and I think lots of noobs will, too.

[Tai-Pan]

Yeah, I think a big part of it was the contrast I saw between Wave 8 and Wave 1. I think Wave 1 was way more self-sufficient, if you will, than wave 8. Wave 1 gave us the Romans with their Warlord bonding, and Marcus to bond with. An added bonus was they could reach back and bond with Ne-Gok-Sa. They didn't have to reach back to be useful, and I think that's kinda the point. Wave 1 gave us the Blade Gruts, and Tornak to bond with. They also reached back and bonded with Grimnak. Arrow Gruts reached back one release to get Mimring, and got a boost in the wave after with Krug and Swog Riders. The Venoc Warlord boosted the Venoc Vipers. It all seemed well rounded and it was a solid wave to buy if you didn't have the money to buy a lot.

Like I said before, I really like the new stuff. And everything (with the possible exception of Kato) stands on its own alright (I just don't think Kato's worth 200 when his ability doesn't work.) I think from a beginner's point though, a wave is better when it includes something for everything to work with. It seems that Waves 5, 7, and 8 fell away from the pattern most of the others had. That is, a couple packs of squads, then heroes that work with them, and then some squads or heroes that stand alone. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, and definately not from all vantage points. In fact, I think Wave 8 is one of my favorite waves of all.