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Reload this Page The Book of the Zombie Hulk
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  #73  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox View Post
Nope no loophole:

Quote:
Horde Shriek:

After revealing an Order Marker and before taking a turn with THIS Zombie Hulk; if THIS Zombie Hulk is not engaged....
The "This is the above power negates the possibility of a "loop". You can only take a turn with other undead Savages, if the order marker is reveal on this card. Thus if the order marker is revealed on Ornak's card, your example is not possible.

Here's what happens in your example.


A player reveals OM1 on Ornak, use Red Flag of Fury Aura to take a turn with unengaged Zombie Hulk A, which cannot use Horde Shriek to take a turn with another Undead Savage since the Order marker was not reveals on the Zombie Hulk's card (no requirement in the power text for this). So Ornak's second Hero activation goes to unengaged Zombie Hulk B, who also cannot use Horde Shriek to take a turn because the Order Marker was not revealed on the Zombie Hulk's card (no requirement in the power text for this).

Thus Ornak just activates two Zombie Hulks and there are no other activations.


You interpret the power this way...

If I reveal an OM on this card and before taking a turn with this card and if this ZH is unengaged...I can take a turn with other Undead Savages I control.
I don't disagree with the intention, just the wording.

Just trying to follow official precedent. Every other card that has an "After revealing an order marker" power specifies the card that the OM is revealed on:

Ana Karithon
Black Wyrmling
Blue Wyrmling
Kurrok the Elementalist
Marcu Esenwein
Marro Hive
Red Wyrmling
Werewolf Lord
White Wyrmling
Red Skull

And because this one doesn't, it leaves the power, by your admission above, subject to interpretation.

A simple "on this card" added to Horde Shriek would be all that would be necessary to close the Ornak loophole.
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  #74  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
EDIT: Wow, super-ninja....

Our Editing Team is looking at the card. Thanks for noting that SirG. I think the wording got switched around at one point and in the process the "on" for "on this card" got lost. It happens.

We'll have a response here soon. Again, thanks for the "Special Eyes," Sir G!
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  #75  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg View Post
EDIT: Wow, super-ninja....

Our Editing Team is looking at the card. Thanks for noting that SirG. I think the wording got switched around at one point and in the process the "on" for "on this card" got lost. It happens.

We'll have a response here soon. Again, thanks for the "Special Eyes," Sir G!
The word THIS was clarified in the recreation of the card which if read correctly should work.

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  #76  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomeunleashed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox View Post
You interpret the power this way...

If I reveal an OM on this card and before taking a turn with this card and if this ZH is unengaged...I can take a turn with other Undead Savages I control.
No he doesn't. SirGalahad is saying that there is nothing on the card that says that the order marker has to be revealed on the Zombie Hulk card, it could be revealed on Ornak's card.
Yeah there is, as Zaphod explains the word AND connects with the word THIS which is all that is needed. AND means it is all together. THIS means one Zombie Hulk.

If there was a comma after "after revealing an order marker" it would work the way you are reading it as but punctuation matters.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. The conjunction 'and' combines the two clauses, but there isn't anything requiring the OM to be on ZH's card. Best parallel example would be Werewolf Lord's Moon Frenzy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolf Lord
Moon Frenzy: After revealing an order marker on this Werefolf Lord, before taking this Werewolf Lord's turn, . . .
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  #77  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
I agree with you, punctuation does matter.

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  #78  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Relax, everyone. Quozl and dok are already discussing this and the other editors will look at it as well. The question is noted and will be reviewed.

Again, thanks, SirG for saying something. Much appreciated.
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  #79  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
No worries. Not trying to ruffle feathers. Sorry if it came across that way.
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  #80  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 02:04 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
I do not understand this argument, seriously.

When using the English language do we write:

1. After John went to the store and before John when home, John stopped at the Gas Station.

Or

2. After going to the store and before going home; John stopped by the Gas Station.

so why do you have to say:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with this card, if the unit on this card in unegaged...

This just seems like unnecessary repeating of words, just like in sentence #1
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  #81  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox View Post
I do not understand this argument, seriously.

When using the English language do we write:

1. After John went to the store and before John when home, John stopped at the Gas Station.

Or

2. After going to the store and before going home; John stopped by the Gas Station.

so why do you have to say:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with this card, if the unit on this card in unegaged...

This just seems like unnecessary repeating of words, just like in sentence #1
Apples and oranges.

In your John example, you took the subject that was common to both clauses and stuck him after the comma, which I would be fine with.

But in the ZH example, "revealing an order marker" is an action. "taking a turn with this Zombie Hulk" is a separate action. What you're asking is to have "this Zombie Hulk" apply to both actions.

It would be doable, but it would still need another preposition for parallel construction.

After revealing an order marker on and before taking a turn with this Zombie Hulk, . . .
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  #82  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGalahad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox View Post
I do not understand this argument, seriously.

When using the English language do we write:

1. After John went to the store and before John when home, John stopped at the Gas Station.

Or

2. After going to the store and before going home; John stopped by the Gas Station.

so why do you have to say:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with this card, if the unit on this card in unegaged...

This just seems like unnecessary repeating of words, just like in sentence #1
Apples and oranges.

In your John example, you took the subject that was common to both clauses and stuck him after the comma, which I would be fine with.

But in the ZH example, "revealing an order marker" is an action. "taking a turn with this Zombie Hulk" is a separate action. What you're asking is to have "this Zombie Hulk" apply to both actions.

It would be doable, but it would still need another preposition for parallel construction.

After revealing an order marker on and before taking a turn with this Zombie Hulk, . . .
Thank you SirG, now that makes sense, it is much more agreeable to me than repeating "this card" several time in the same sentence.

Sorry SirG, this argument has been a pet peeve for a while and you just caught me on a day with a "hangover" .

Thanks for you help.

-ZB
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  #83  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
Sorry about the confusion. Sometimes it is not easy being clear via text alone.
Hope you get to feeling better.
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  #84  
Old January 2nd, 2012, 02:59 PM
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Re: The Book of the Zombie Hulk
SirG,

I agree that linguistically, one could technically interpret the card in the way you describe, but it is really a bit absurd to do so. After all, by that interpretation, the phrase "after revealing an order marker" has literally zero meaning. After all, every turn in the game follows the revealing of an order marker on some card. The only way to interpret it that is at all meaningful is to assume that "with this zombie hulk" applies to the revealing of the Order Marker as well (which does also work, linguistically).

That said, yes, the language on this card is (a) nonstandard, and (b) does leave open the possibility of that bizarre interpretation. If we ever re-release this card, the opening phrase will probably be changed to mimic the Werewolf Lord's Moon Frenzy.

This card predates the current practice, which is to have the editing group do a once-over on SoV cards before they become official. (The eagle-eyed out there may have noticed some small changes in the Zettian Infantry language from earlier versions.) Much like some of the oddities on RotV cards (Grimnak doesn't have a choice about whether to chomp friendly figures? What the heck is a clear sight shot?) this guy has a couple little oddities that probably won't get repeated.
Last edited by dok; January 2nd, 2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Moon Frenzy, not Howl
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