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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies. |
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#13
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Re: 4th>10th
Jexik,
As long as you suggest all-Valiant 4th armies in comparison to the 10th you're missing the point. Pointing out that someone skilled with the 4th may not use the 10th well also misses the point. The 10th are an army component, not an army. You blew off an army that potentially features four figures with six move, five attack and five defense - range six from height. Trouble with Q9... Stingers? Mebbe, but in the right hands that seems really deadly to me even before you factor in Nilfheim. More importantly, it CANNOT be matched by the 4th without losing the 10ths toughness against melee units - needed since they are their own melee screen. Oddly, for two units so apparently alike, I would say that the 4th and the 10th are too dissimilar to create an apples-to-apples 4th>10th comparison. ~Aldin, leading the charge He either fears his fate too much or his desserts are small That dares not put it to the touch to gain or lose it all ~James Graham |
#14
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Re: 4th>10th
I think that when you compare these units in a tournament setting, you have to look at every unit in it's highest capacity. That's probably how you'll see them being used in said tournament, so it doesn't make sense to look at them otherwise.
So, when I look at the Mass, I assume they're Valiant (or in a really good army that isn't). When I look at the 10th, I assume they at least have Raelin. When I look at the Blasts, I assume they have Gladiatrons. When I look at the Stingers, I assume they have Raelin and/or Deathreavers (probably just Reavers). So, to me, it becomes which of the four above scenarios is best to define which squad is the best. I think the 'Trons are easily the best personally. They get (usually) the most dice per marker and can move the most figures. I think it goes Trons, Mass, Stingers, 10th. When you compare Valiant Mass to 10th/Raelin, the Valiant Mass are better IMO. They can spread out and still keep their bonus and, if 80 points of their army gets killed, they don't get worse. The 10th have incentive to engage, which means they want to bring the fight. The Mass can just chill out while these other armies bring the fight to them, allowing them to get better positioning (in fact, that's why they have a strong matchup against Trons). Now, if the Mass start getting non-Valiant, it's more of a toss-up. I don't know if Bayonet/Melee Defense is worth the 5 points per squad on a ranged squad, especially once you start getting to 3-4 squads. At 2 squads, the 10th might be better than the Mass because 10 points isn't difficult to lose. Over in the 550 General Specific Thread, I was comparing these two armies.... which do you think is better? That might help answer this question: Nilfheim - 185 Raelin - 265 10th Foot x3 - 490 Zetacron / Marro Warriors + Isamu - 550 or Nilfheim - 185 Raelin - 265 4th Mass x4 - 545 I vote #2 Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!) KC's Maps Click KC's Customs Scaper of the Week #57 |
#15
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Re: 4th>10th
I love the 4th; everyone around here knows it. I also played the 10th last summer at GenCon and got slaughtered. But the difference is small and a few dice out of a hundred will shift the balance...oh, and Charos, Valiant Charos, might shift the balance too. <grin>
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#16
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Re: 4th>10th
Quote:
~Aldin, fine tuningly He either fears his fate too much or his desserts are small That dares not put it to the touch to gain or lose it all ~James Graham |
#17
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Re: 4th>10th
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Clancampbell ~ nit pickingly Apoligies to Aldin, but I always wanted to do that. 73 tournaments. 175 - 145 - 1 overall record. 6 tournament wins. |
#18
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Re: 4th>10th
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Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!) KC's Maps Click KC's Customs Scaper of the Week #57 Last edited by killercactus; January 19th, 2009 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Charos + 5x Mass comment |
#19
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Re: 4th>10th
I know. I originally suggested this in that thread:
Zelrig - 185 10th x3 - 410 Ninjas - 520 Guilty - 550 I noted that this army seems very strong against squads, but lacks against heroes, so I said it would probably be better with Nilf, Raelin and Zetacron. Then, after saying that, I came up with the 4th Mass variant and posted it there. Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!) KC's Maps Click KC's Customs Scaper of the Week #57 |
#20
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Re: 4th>10th
Quote:
But to be fair, again, we seem to have hit upon a point total (and choice of companion units) that happens to favor one over another. What if it were 520 points? Now stingersx4 + Isamu looks good, and it's the 4th that has to drop down and fill in with a single squad of rats, or the like (which pretty much kills any chance of getting a valiant bonus for most of the game). The 10th just loses a bit of filler and looks about as strong as before. Now, if we allow partial common squad drafting, we can do a more direct apples-to-apples comparison... |
#21
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Re: 4th>10th
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The 4th Mass restriction isn't nearly as restricting as it's made out to be. They're good at just about any point total. Often, even eating 10-20 points will still result in a very powerful Valiant army. |
#22
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Re: 4th>10th
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#23
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Re: 4th>10th
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The 10th really need to beat both for me to want to play them. Quote:
Oranges are better than apples, IMO, since you can drink their juice and use their zest for other things. Apple pie is overrated. Who cares if you can also make it into cobbler, sauce, and a million other things, apple juice makes little kids poop and that's gross. (One of the things I continue to like about HS is how differently the similar units play, even something like Heavy Gruts v. Blade Gruts, Zelrig v. Nilfheim, or Romans v. Sacred Band play differently. <3 the design team). As an army, 4th or Blasts/Glads >10th Reg. = Stingers As an army component, Stingers > 10th Reg. As either, 10th Reg. > than just about everything else that's common. Edit: I have a new signature. |
#24
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Re: 4th>10th
At this point I think we pretty much agree although we are looking at it different ways.
I agree with the first of those statements. I think the second has exceptions. For instance, say you want to use Marcus, MBS, and Romansx2, in a 480 point tournament. 10thx3 is pretty money with that army, giving you a 475 point, 23 hex army with great synergy and OM management. Stingersx3, plus 50 points of filler, does not really sound as good. Neither does 4thx3 plus Marcu, for that matter. |
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