Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 14th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Messenger's Avatar
Messenger Messenger is offline
 
Join Date: May 12, 2006
Location: IN - Fort Wayne
Posts: 673
Messenger has disabled reputation
Revising the Power Rankings

Following the discussion over at the Most Over-rated unit discussion got me thinking if there isn't a better alternative to the Power Rankings. Specifically, the Matthias Maccabeus quote in the above link, as well as this quote from Jexik stood out (MM stands for Matthias Maccabeus, in case you didn't know):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
What would the MM rankings look like?
Spider-poison continues to do a great job of maintaining the Power Rankings. But ultimately any decision to adjust the rankings comes down to his decision. As fair and knowledgable as he is (and he is both) it still comes down to his perception or play-style as to which units to adjust. And while he does take into consideration the discussion and dialogue of others, would it not be better if there was another way to determine the ranking of units on a more democratic basis?

I have some ideas as to how this could occur (something like college sports rankings mixed with a BoV-style panel), but I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts on the subject.

There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:22-24
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 14th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Cavalier's Avatar
Cavalier Cavalier is offline
Trainer of n00bs
 
Join Date: August 16, 2006
Location: AZ - PHX Metro (Mesa)
Posts: 10,843
Images: 176
Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death! Cavalier is hot lava death!
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Any sort of ranking is going to be subjective, in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 14th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Elginb Elginb is offline
 
Join Date: August 30, 2006
Posts: 1,327
Blog Entries: 21
Elginb has disabled reputation
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Maybe do it like the coaches polls in football? Maybe it would be limited to site contributors or something...

It would be nice if we could get some hard numbers to work with-- the winning percentages of certain units (I've heard Jexik make the point that some units gain a reputation for success merely because they're used a lot and their many losses don't get factored in). I imagine it would be hard to get tournament directors to compile those stats and submit them, but I bet you could get a more scientific result that way.

Also, it might be nice to match up the success of a unit relative to the skill of the player. For instance, the whole NESA thing could be used to weight the success of units that way.

Again, I don't know how labor intensive this would be-- I'm not a statistician or a tournament director; but it strikes me that if a routine were put in place, it might not be so difficult after a while.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 14th, 2009, 05:37 PM
Xn F M's Avatar
Xn F M Xn F M is offline
Gets It!!!
 
Join Date: March 9, 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,145
Blog Entries: 7
Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness Xn F M wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Personally, I think the best way to go about it would be to set up an official comittee of people qualified to make those kinds of decisions, and have them work out amongst themselves the best way to manage Spider Poison's power rankings.

As far as setting something like that up goes, that's really more of a thing to handle via PM with him. IMHO.

Edit: I don't think I was entirely clear as to my opinion in my origional post. What I was trying to get at is that these are SP's rankings and if he wants to turn over control of them to the community it's entirely his decision. While I would like to see the power ranking become a community run endeavor, the power rankings are Spider Poison's baby, and we (as a community) should respect his wishes on how they are run.

I don't need no instructions to know how to rock.

Last edited by Xn F M; May 14th, 2009 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 14th, 2009, 06:55 PM
CheddarLimbo's Avatar
CheddarLimbo CheddarLimbo is offline
No Soup or Happy Endings For You!
 
Join Date: July 22, 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 3,119
Blog Entries: 6
CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla CheddarLimbo is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

The bottom line is there's never going to be a "real" ranking, because (as Cav points out) every ranking is going to be subjective. It doesn't matter if its one qualified person, or twenty in a committee. Each player is still going to have to make up their own mind as to the value of each figure's worth.

So instead, I think I'll just do what I've always done when it comes to the figure rankings (or any other piece of information someone else delivers): I'll take it under advisement and understand that the information comes to me in a certain context. Then, I'll make up my own mind.


Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 14th, 2009, 07:01 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 21,702
Images: 108
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Yeah, this seems like the proverbial solution in search of a problem.

I suppose the power rankings have become such an institution around here that having a "power ranking committee" that collects feedback and carefully, regularly updates things would be nice. But it's hardly necessary. spider_poison does a fine job on his own, and is pretty receptive to feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 14th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Oestedb Oestedb is offline
 
Join Date: April 14, 2009
Location: U.S.A. - OR - Eugene
Posts: 110
Oestedb is surprisingly tart
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

I find very few people who disagree with Spider_Poison's rankings. If anything, it would be cool if Heroscapers had a way to enter win-loss records for every figure in an official tournament. Of course, even that would be subjective to the army each unit was played with as well as the competency of the player. I am the player that would probably not help the glads and blasts rise in rankings.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 14th, 2009, 07:26 PM
mccombju's Avatar
mccombju mccombju is offline
Warning! Reading my posts may make you smarter
 
Join Date: September 13, 2008
Location: Canada - Ontario - Toronto
Posts: 368
mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness mccombju wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

There is no need for a power ranking committee.

As it stands, spider_poison functions as the arbiter of an unofficial heroscape community committee. By consulting with others and relying on tournament data (that is anectdotal in nature, focusing on big wins for certain armies), he iterates his rankings to be in accordance with the widely held opinions of the strategic leaders of Heroscape.

I think spider_poison would be very receptive to compelling arguments based on the data of a unit's tournament performance (i.e. if you really want to have a certain ranking adjusted, then compile some data to illustrate your point). Provided that the data is credible, it is likely that he would be more than willing to adjust a figure's ranking. I believe that this is the approach he has taken in the past.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 14th, 2009, 07:48 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 21,702
Images: 108
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by mccombju View Post
I think spider_poison would be very receptive to compelling arguments based on the data of a unit's tournament performance (i.e. if you really want to have a certain ranking adjusted, then compile some data to illustrate your point). Provided that the data is credible, it is likely that he would be more than willing to adjust a figure's ranking. I believe that this is the approach he has taken in the past.
Yeah, this is not a hypothetical; he has been receptive to arguments to raise or lower figures, based both on theoryscape and tournament results.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 15th, 2009, 09:04 AM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

killercactus' rankings:

A+

Runa
Minions of Utgar
Nilfheim
Major Q10
Deathreavers

A

Zetacron
Airborne Elite
Marro Warriors

A-

......there are other figures?

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 15th, 2009, 09:39 AM
Messenger's Avatar
Messenger Messenger is offline
 
Join Date: May 12, 2006
Location: IN - Fort Wayne
Posts: 673
Messenger has disabled reputation
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccombju View Post
I think spider_poison would be very receptive to compelling arguments based on the data of a unit's tournament performance (i.e. if you really want to have a certain ranking adjusted, then compile some data to illustrate your point). Provided that the data is credible, it is likely that he would be more than willing to adjust a figure's ranking. I believe that this is the approach he has taken in the past.
Yeah, this is not a hypothetical; he has been receptive to arguments to raise or lower figures, based both on theoryscape and tournament results.
But what should he do when two arguments are posed, each compelling yet conflicting? One arguing for raising a unit, the other for lowering that same unit. The decision falls to one person which side to accept. A committee vote garners multiple views versus one person's particular leaning (however qualified that person may be).

There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:22-24
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 15th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Agent Minivann's Avatar
Agent Minivann Agent Minivann is offline
Quest Quitter
 
Join Date: May 10, 2006
Location: AZ - Tucson
Posts: 6,849
Blog Entries: 2
Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death! Agent Minivann is hot lava death!
Re: Revising the Power Rankings

I don't really see a need. To do it committee style, or compiling win/loss records, or doing any kind of voting is going to be a lot of work. If you don't really like the rankings, post your own rankings. I think that the original will likely be the most popular if competing threads arise. It has held up pretty well over the months. It isn't the end all, be all of rankings, but there isn't a ranking system that will be.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Classic Heroscape Power Rankings spider_poison Competitive Armies Discussion 4661 December 8th, 2018 12:30 AM
The Unoffical Marvel Power Rankings tyguy94920 Marvel Discussion 25 May 16th, 2008 01:56 PM
How to weight units based on Spider Poison's Power Rankings. Kroc Competitive Armies Discussion 15 April 29th, 2008 10:17 AM
Armies With Point Adjustments - Based on Power Rankings killercactus Competitive Armies Discussion 11 October 23rd, 2007 06:49 PM
Wave 5 Unit Rankings Jason Official Units 32 August 13th, 2006 07:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.