The Book of Baron Von Strucker

[IAmBatman]

What if we made it this:

Androids and figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield if any are rolled when defending against Satan’s Claw Special Attack.

Or:

Androids and figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield when defending against Satan’s Claw Special Attack.

Obviously, if none are rolled or if there are no auto shields in play, it's irrelevant. It would let him bust through auto shields on units like Magneto and Colossus, though, which would be cool. It would also make Electro on water's situation easier, because the auto shield and auto shield removal would cancel each other out.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

What if we made it this:

Androids and figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield if any are rolled when defending against Satan’s Claw Special Attack.

Or:

Androids and figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield when defending against Satan’s Claw Special Attack.

Obviously, if none are rolled or if there are no auto shields in play, it's irrelevant. It would let him bust through auto shields on units like Magneto and Colossus, though, which would be cool. It would also make Electro on water's situation easier, because the auto shield and auto shield removal would cancel each other out.

Good catch Sir G and nice change Bats. I like this one for the reasons you stated above. Electro will just end up with rolling less defense for being on water as the +1/-1 of the Electrically Charged power would negate itself. Busting through auto shields is fun too because they can't whiff and say "I still have 1 shield" where I can say, "Uh, no you don't, Eat The Claw!"

Androids and figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield when defending against Satan’s Claw Special Attack.

I'll make the change to the OP.

[SirGalahad]

OK, follow-up question. Does an Android on a water space subtract 2 shields?

I'm not trying to be snarky - My brain just thinks of these things.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

OK, follow-up question. Does an Android on a water space subtract 2 shields?

I'm not trying to be snarky - My brain just thinks of these things.

Well tell your brain to stop. Good question, though: nay until that gets sorted out. Maybe just as simple as "Androids or figures on water spaces subtract 1 shield* when defending against Satan's Claw Special Attack."

*"from whatever is rolled" should follow, a la Tough adding 1 shield "to whatever is rolled"

[IAmBatman]

Auto shields aren't rolled, though. And, yes, I'm pretty sure an Android on water would subtract two shields.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Auto shields aren't rolled, though. And, yes, I'm pretty sure an Android on water would subtract two shields.

Yeah, that's how I'd play it.

I think it's important for us to always consider these concerns Sir G, so don't worry about bringing it up . We want to keep powers from being broken or easily abusable.

Now considering that BVS has limited mobility and Satan's Claw has a range of 1 and Androids so far have range and flying, it should be up to the player with the Androids to keep out of water when playing against BVS. They might want to stay out of water anyway as they will have height disadvantage. Now certainly JG, Magneto, Graviton and others can place Androids in water, but JG is best in a Mutant army, Magneto is pricey and vulnerable when Throwing and Graviton is 400 points. BVS is going to be at his best with HYDRA Agents (x3), Madame HYDRA and Red Skull for around 800 points. So adding the cost of a thrower and maybe Blob to get the Androids (Sentinels can't be thrown) Stuck in water would put you well over 1000 points. With that many points, an opponent with Androids can have enough to target either the throwing unit or BVS to avoid the -2 shields in water. If you play BVS without his Agents or other HYDRA faction to save points, then he's not at his best either.

I don't know if this very specific issue is any worse than Black Canary's Fists of Fury going nuts, Catwoman's Whip going nuts or Electro's Electric Skin going nuts with an opponent's figure moving into engagement with him and him rolling 12+ 4 times in a row.

[SirGalahad]

I'm fine with the -2 shields, just wanted to clarify.

[IAmBatman]

Yes, I think it was a complexity issue being raised, not a power level issue. I think the complexity is sorted out with the new wording, though - and perhaps an FAQ should be added about the Android on water situation.

[Hahma]

Q- "If an Android is on a water space and attacked by Baron von Strucker's Satan's Claw Special Attack, does the player controlling that Android subtract 2 shields when defending against that attack?"

A-"Yes, the Android is screwed."

or

A- "Yes. After the player controlling the Android figure rolls defense dice against that attack, subtract 2 shields from the total number of shields, including any that are counted from special powers, such as Tough. Note that while this is extra effective against Android figures with Tough special power, Android figures with Shields of Valor type defensive powers still double any shield rolled and then subtract 2 from the total."

[SirGalahad]

Go with the second because somebody will ask if you only post the first one.

[SirGalahad]

yea to editing

[IAmBatman]

Good stuff, Hahma.