The Book of Sam Winchester

[Splash]

Originally Posted by fret_gurglo

So how do people feel about Sam Defense drop to 3 and cost drop to 150?

Just lemme know and I'll run the next test

[fret_gurglo]

Originally Posted by Splash

Just lemme know and I'll run the next test

Doesn't seem to be any opposition for it, so let's make that change for the next test please. I'll make the change in the SP

[Yodaking]

It's fine with me.

[Splash]

Army Test
Map: Wakandan Royal Forest.
Units: Sam and Dean, Spike, Buffy (700) vs Enchantress II, She-Hulk (Avengers) (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Buffy chooses She-Hulk. She-Hulk deals an unblockable with her smash, and then kills Sam in an attack that would have finished him regardless of whether he had 3 or 4 defense.

We decide to restart. Buffy and Spike drop She-Hulk down to 1 life before getting sweeped. She-Hulk deals 2 to Dean, Amora deals 1 more. Sam finishes She-Hulk and then moves Dean past where she was. Amora trances Dean and he misses Sam. Then Amora finishes Dean, sadly before he gets a chance to use his arsenal. Amora chips away one wound at a time, while Sam doesn’t manage to wound her in return before she finally takes him out.

Damage Done by Sam (Normal Attack): Inflicted 1 wounds on She-Hulk
HUNTING COMPANION: Used a bit until Dean dropped.
HUNTERS' TRAPS 13: One instance of it not mattering.
DEMONIC PRECOGNITION: Helped some.

Damage Done by Dean (Normal Attack): Inflicted 0 wounds
HUNTING PARTNER: Didn’t really get a chance.
HUNTER’S ARSENAL: Didn’t really get a chance..
THE COLT SPECIAL ATTACK: Didn’t really get a chance.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Enchantress (full).

[Splash]

Messaged on discord, throwing it up here as well.

Hey fret the Winchesters didn't deliver against some heavy hitters.
What would you think about testing with 5 life and 3 defense for them since they aren't ever really blocking successfully in the show but can take a pretty good beating (similar to punisher).
We had a moment where She-Hulk stomped Sam right out of the gate with an unblockable and then 4 wounds getting past the 3 defense+auto, so he'd of been dead regardless of 4 or 3 defense.
So I think lower defense of 3 makes it easier for weaker units to manage to pass through that autoshield, but 5 life would let them both live longer against tanks.
Also Karat was saying the Traps should be an unblockable die chance for a wound, I think that wouldn't be bad since Sam isn't very offensive against strong ones if Dean falls.
Karat and I will play the next game tomorrow, let us know what you think is best

[Splash]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

The auto-shield is certainly quite good for him and his team. I see his team still ultimately lost to the Rogues though. I do like that power idea/theme though for this show, no one ever stays dead it seems. I would just save it for another card from their world at this point. Maybe Cass?

I forgot to mention that what was left of the Rogues only won because they got reallly lucky in killing Spawn early.

[fret_gurglo]

Thanks Splash & Karat. I think its ok for the Winchesters to lose against Enchantress and She-hulk. Both are pretty big hitters and can easily wipe out a weaker figure in a single hit often, so that doesn't surprise me. I talked with Karat a bit and would like see Dean run with his full 4 Defense, leaving Sam a little weaker at 3 Defense.

And if the Rogues knocked out Spawn early with some lucky hits that would definitely have large impact on the team performance.

[Splash]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Sam Winchester and Dean Winchester
VERSION TESTED

Spoiler Alert!

Test 1 - SPs as of 10/22 around 5PM CST (against Shiftrex)
Test 2 - dropped defense on both to 3 and tried each at 150 cost (against Karat)
Test 3 - current SPs - sam 3def/150 & dean 4def/170 (against Karat)

Army Test
Map: Grundy’s Grave.
Units: Sam, Dean, Hellboy II, Spawn (1,000) vs Captain Cold II, Plunder, Magenta, The Top, Trickster (James Jessie), Weather Wizard I, Tar Pit (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

Plunder’s Bounty is Sam. Hellboy chooses Spawn and Metahumans. Sam and Dean move up and then Dean gets fogged up by Weather Wizard. The brothers fall back and set up camp on height. They take out Tar Pit and The Top. Dean falls and Sam lasts almost until the end before being killed by Captain Cold.

Shiftrex whiffed a lot on the Rogues.

Damage Done by Sam (Normal Attack): Inflicted 3 wounds on Tar Pit, 4 on The Top, 4 on Weather Wizard, 1 on Plunder.
HUNTING COMPANION: Used all the time.
HUNTERS' TRAPS 13: Was not used a lot since I didn’t want to stop Rogues from moving in range and away from Weather Wizard.
DEMONIC PRECOGNITION: This blocked a lot of “would be” wounds on Dean.

Damage Done by Dean (Normal Attack): Inflicted 1 wound on Tar Pit.
HUNTING COMPANION: Used all the time.
HUNTER’S ARSENAL: Did not come into play.
THE COLT SPECIAL ATTACK: Used frequently.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Captain Cold (1/5), Plunder (3/4), Trickster (3/4).

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Wakandan Royal Forest.
Units: Sam and Dean, Spike, Buffy (700) vs Enchantress II, She-Hulk (Avengers) (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Buffy chooses She-Hulk. She-Hulk deals an unblockable with her smash, and then kills Sam in an attack that would have finished him regardless of whether he had 3 or 4 defense.

We decide to restart. Buffy and Spike drop She-Hulk down to 1 life before getting sweeped. She-Hulk deals 2 to Dean, Amora deals 1 more. Sam finishes She-Hulk and then moves Dean past where she was. Amora trances Dean and he misses Sam. Then Amora finishes Dean, sadly before he gets a chance to use his arsenal. Amora chips away one wound at a time, while Sam doesn’t manage to wound her in return before she finally takes him out.

Damage Done by Sam (Normal Attack): Inflicted 1 wounds on She-Hulk
HUNTING COMPANION: Used a bit until Dean dropped.
HUNTERS' TRAPS 13: One instance of it not mattering.
DEMONIC PRECOGNITION: Helped some.

Damage Done by Dean (Normal Attack): Inflicted 0 wounds
HUNTING PARTNER: Didn’t really get a chance.
HUNTER’S ARSENAL: Didn’t really get a chance..
THE COLT SPECIAL ATTACK: Didn’t really get a chance.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Enchantress (full).

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Dark Dimension.
Units: Sam and Dean, Hellboy II, Blade I (890) vs Evil Ernie, 3xVampire Minions, Daimon Hellstrom, 10 Points of Spells (890)

Spoiler Alert!

Hellboy picks Blade and Undead. Both armies slowly advance. Vampires chip away at Sam and Dean, Hellboy and Blade block most. Brothers take out Hellstrom. Ernie finally moves in, getting slowed down by Sam’s traps. He takes out Sam and then Dean whams him with the Colt. The vamps get revenge on Blade after Ernie dies and only Hellboy and a heavily injured Dean are left standing.

The brothers and their Hunter team did well this game, but it was against enemies they had plenty of benefits against.

Damage Done by Sam (Normal Attack): Inflicted 3 wounds on Hellstrom.
HUNTING COMPANION: Used a bunch.
HUNTERS' TRAPS 13: Stopped a vamp and then later Ernie from getting friendly with Blade.
DEMONIC PRECOGNITION: X blocked an additional wound on Dean and an additional wound on Blade which was pretty cool. Stopped a lot of “would be” wounds on Dean and Blade.

Damage Done by Dean (Normal Attack): Inflicted 1 wound on Vampire Minions. 2 wounds on Hellstrom. 4 wounds on Ernie.
HUNTING PARTNER: Used a bunch.
HUNTER’S ARSENAL: Got 2 in one shot on Hellstrom with the Colt.
THE COLT SPECIAL ATTACK: I got to use the X against the vamps. Got 2 in one shot on Hellstrom with the Colt. 4 wounds on Ernie with the Colt bonus!


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Hellboy (full), Dean (1/4 remaining)

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: The first game had Sam being impossible to kill, so his defense/cost was lowered for the next two games. Dean was lowered too, but it weakened him too much, so he was reverted in the third game. Karat and I both agree the last game with them went perfect.

Both the Hunter Companion and Partner powers get used a lot, you want oms on Sam initially to move them up and then on Dean to start blasting, I love it. Balance and stratwise, the X being for either offense or defense is really cool too if they last enough rounds (Demonic Precog and Colt).

Traps don’t come into play a lot but are useful as a last ditch stall the opponent when they work. Sam’s major usefulness is in Slayer defenses. He got Dean, Blade, and himself to ignore a more fair, but still very satisfying amount of woundage in the last game.

Dean’s Arsenal is good but not foolproof (the vampires got around it), its best use is against magic users, he’s a pretty good counter against them, which isn’t superoff.

The Colt is great, it doesn’t really hit too hard unless paired with arsenal buffs or when using the X, but that moment in the last game when he dropped Evil Ernie by half felt worthy of a moment on the show.

I also wanna say I think Dean at 4 defense and Sam at 3 does make the most sense here, the defense buff on the slayer team should be the weak link, and Dean shouldn’t be too easy to hit in comparison with other Slayers who also benefit from the buff. Plus earlier in the show, Dean was definitely more experienced than Sam at hunting.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Karat and I both thought they were just right the last game and that they’d make sense both at 160, Sam still provides a lot of utility and Dean can still get taken down early despite his offensive potential. Dean put out a lot more wounds, but Sam blocked a lot of incoming wounds. Another nice thing is there wasn’t an obvious choice of who to target that game either.

They play great and we both think they’re ready to go.

[Splash]

Here are the tests fret, sorry for the chaos, hope they can still squeeze in on time!

[Yodaking]

Things seems to be shaping up well here. pre-yea for Final Editing

[fret_gurglo]

Let's put the Winchesters up for final editing vote at 160 each.

[MrNobody]

Yea