Prop 8 Prevails in California -- Gay Marriage Discussion

[SuperflyTNT]

So you bought 4 sets each of series 2? =D

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT

So you bought 4 sets each of series 2? =D

What's sad is that I am very near that. I'm actually about to start selling Heroscape stuff to pay my property taxes. Not the important stuff, but that 4th VW needs to go.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

^Ok, I think this is getting off-topic.

Anyways, I don't see how 2 people of the same sex loving each other is wrong at all. Should be just as acceptable as 1 man and 1 woman.

I recently watched a "Yes on Prop 8" ad on Youtube that kept on bringing up religous freedom. Awesome, the religous freedom to force your beliefs on others.

[Granite-M]

For those against gay marriage, I would like to know some specific answers to a few questions:

1) Ignoring, for the moment, the discussion about "new rights," what is the harm of allowing gay marriage?

2) How can gay marriages devalue heterosexual marriages?

3) Is this a religious discussion? Are we trying to prevent gay marriage because it is a religious abomination?

4) If one activity is legally restricted because it is religiously forbidden, why not others? Why not outlaw adultery, and punish it with penalties as harsh as those in Leviticus? Where do you draw the line on religious law?

[vdemman13]

Originally Posted by SlikkRikk

I have a lot of feelings on this issue and I'm going to try to present my views as non-combative as I can. But I have read the thoughts of many on political issues on 'Scapers so I'd like to read what those minds think of this.

It is amazing to me that in a Democratic state like California is, where it seems that everyone I know voted for Obama, Prop 8 still passed somehow. I really wanted to see McCain in office but the passing of Prop 8 is what had me down the next day. I just don't see how the victory of this could make people so happy. To think of all the time some folks have spent lobbying and campaigning and spending money all to sit there afterward and say, "Yay! We just pushed gays farther down the ladder and continued to discriminate! Woo hoo!"

I know the VOTE YES campaign centered around religion and "protecting our children". Well, I have two kids, and I'm quite positive they'll hear about gay people sometime in their life, as I did. I think they'll make it.

The main argument that I hear from my friends that voted Yes for Prop 8 is that they "like their gay friends but the Bible says its wrong and they chose to be gay, they didn't have to be!" With all the evidence to the contrary that homosexuality is genetic, I don't understand this narrow view. Obviously there are some that choose it for various reasons, but go talk to a gay man or woman and they'll usually tell you they knew they were gay as a child. I've heard story after story of three kids growing up together, one being gay and the others being straight. It happens. I'd like people to put themselves in that shoe. Not only is being gay against the norm and the persecution for that lifestyle is high throughout their growing years and adulthood, BUT if and when they do manage to fight through that and find a partner that they love they can't marry them. Those are shoes I would hate to have to wear. And many gays, I feel, don't have a choice in the matter.

I understand the Bible says its wrong. But a lot goes on in the Bible today that's wrong. We live in a sinful world. Is there a chance that the world has progressed to the point where sin is alive in our world, and even commonplace, and even developed into our genes? Of course there is. The fact remains, gay folks are still PEOPLE like everyone else. I don't see why their ability to get married has to be restricted, and why they need to be continued to be treated as second-class citizens.

But EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME to this point -- beyond religion, beyond genetics, the simple question that I ask every day, is:

Even if you feel like being gay is wrong/sinful, why does that give us the right to discriminate and make decisions for others lead their lives?

My prediction: In 20 years, gays will be married nationwide and we'll look back and say, "What were we doing?"

May healthy discussion prevail.

Hi All -

This is a hot issue these days. And the simple fact is that this is a life style/behavior choice and not genetic or in the same line as other causes for freedom. If we make the genetic fallacy, we can say that murder, stealing, bestiality, pedophilia are also genetic... and this is a dangerous philosophy. Our Judea-Christian history, based on the 66 books passed to us by divine reveleation clearly speak against this lifestyle, and not gays themselves [Jude 1:7, Romans 1:26, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Leviticus 18:22-23, etc].

Marriage is defined as one man and one woman. As a wise man name Confucius once said regarding the redefining of words, that it is a dangerous endeavor.

Finally, the human body is not made for homosexual unions, it simply was not created for this. Basic Biology militates against this behavior. And diseases have run rampant causing healthcare problems as well as increased healthcare costs.

Social-psychology argues that this lifestyle also causes issues in society regarding families and harmony.

Regardless, we are all sinners and have fallen from Grace. If sin becomes commen and men begin to judge things based on subjectivism instead of the objective truth of God, then we are all no better than the three horses that are all tied to each other rather than tied to the post that would have kept them from running away. Fear not for Jesus has conquered sin and is not to far from any of us.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

This is a hot issue these days. And the simple fact is that this is a life style/behavior choice and not genetic or in the same line as other causes for freedom. If we make the genetic fallacy, we can say that murder, stealing, bestiality, pedophilia are also genetic... and this is a dangerous philosophy. Our Judea-Christian history, based on the 66 books passed to us by divine reveleation clearly speak against this lifestyle, and not gays themselves [Jude 1:7, Romans 1:26, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Leviticus 18:22-23, etc].

Murder, stealing, and pedophilia hurt people. Homosexuality doesn't, at all.

Marriage is defined as one man and one woman. As a wise man name Confucius once said regarding the redefining of words, that it is a dangerous endeavor.

Allowing homosexuals (and bisexuals too) to marry will not affect any past, present, or future heterosexual marriage, AT ALL.

Finally, the human body is not made for homosexual unions, it simply was not created for this. Basic Biology militates against this behavior. And diseases have run rampant causing healthcare problems as well as increased healthcare costs.

1.) What consenting adults do with each other sexually is none of the government's business.

2.) Straights and gays get the SAME STD's.

Social-psychology argues that this lifestyle also causes issues in society regarding families and harmony.

OMG! OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING! OMG! AHHHHHHHHHH!

Regardless, we are all sinners and have fallen from Grace. If sin becomes commen and men begin to judge things based on subjectivism instead of the objective truth of God, then we are all no better than the three horses that are all tied to each other rather than tied to the post that would have kept them from running away. Fear not for Jesus has conquered sin and is not to far from any of us.

This is not a theocracy.

[Gulp]

Thanks for sharing. We've already talked a lot about religion, but 23 pages is quite a bit of homework to do before jumping in.

We are animals. Animals occasionally are homosexual. Some people think it's a natural population control mechanism.

I found a way not to be a sinner, I just stopped being religious. It's pretty great. I even got my grace back!

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by vdemman13

This is a hot issue these days. And the simple fact is that this is a life style/behavior choice and not genetic or in the same line as other causes for freedom.

I don't know about you, but I couldn't choose to be gay any more than I could choose to be black. By saying homosexuality is a choice, you are basically saying that you made a choice not to be gay, and that you were attracted to both genders and decided to choose hetersexuality. (I have no idea what your sexuality is, you could be gay for all I know or care). My point is simply that it is absurd to think that somebody would choose to be gay. I don't want to get into the birds and the bees here but there are simple functionality issues that don't jive here.

[Gulp]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I don't want to get into the birds and the bees here but there are simple functionality issues that don't jive here.

Oh do tell, Papa GB! Tell us the story about the birds and the bees! It sounds utterly delightful! Do the birds eat the bees? Or do the bees stick their stingers in the dreadful birds!

[/British accent]

[ABOMINATION]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Murder, stealing, and pedophilia hurt people. Homosexuality doesn't, at all.

Allowing homosexuals (and bisexuals too) to marry will not affect any past, present, or future heterosexual marriage, AT ALL.

That doesn't make it right. You've got to think about this. A professor said, "Either there's a God or there isn't. Both possibilities are frightening."
If there is a God, homosexuals are going to stand before him, and in the Bible, God says that being gay is wrong. If their isn't a God, then who's boss? Us? If I'm god, I could say that murder is ok. You say it's wrong. By who's authority? If I'm boss, I can have whatever morals I want. If man's god, the world's in a lot of trouble. I know I'll most likely get neg repped for what I said, but what you said made my blood boil.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Originally Posted by ABOMINATION

That doesn't make it right. You've got to think about this. A professor said, "Either there's a God or there isn't. Both possibilities are frightening."
If there is a God, homosexuals are going to stand before him, and in the Bible, God says that being gay is wrong. If their isn't a God, then who's boss? Us? If I'm god, I could say that murder is ok. You say it's wrong. By who's authority? If I'm boss, I can have whatever morals I want. If man's god, the world's in a lot of trouble. I know I'll most likely get neg repped for what I said, but what you said made my blood boil.

This isn't a theocracy.

Not to mention that not believing in God doesn't make you evil.

[vdemman13]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

Murder, stealing, and pedophilia hurt people. Homosexuality doesn't, at all.

Allowing homosexuals (and bisexuals too) to marry will not affect any past, present, or future heterosexual marriage, AT ALL.

1.) What consenting adults do with each other sexually is none of the government's business.

2.) Straights and gays get the SAME STD's.

OMG! OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING! OMG! AHHHHHHHHHH!

This is not a theocracy.

Homosexuality does hurt people and families as do all self-motivated pursuits.

Sexual behavior has affected society in healthcare costs.

People can choose to do what they want in their own home... this is the law of Free-will, but what they choose is never moral or good in itself.

27" In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." [Romans 1:27-28

All this depends on this philosophical premise: Is there a God or is there not a God? This will shape what you believe in for the rest of your life.