The Book of Phoenix Force

[Scapemage]

Wow, those are some results. I would encourage further testing at 1250 or 1300 with potential to come down rather than potentially see more blow-out games.

[IAmBatman]

I'm cool with 1200 for public testing. I think this is the kind of figure where the calculator really struggles, as I wasn't getting anything close to over 1,000 even with really high estimates for powers. Pre-yea at that cost.

[tcglkn]

Yea I’m good with going into testing at 1200 and either toning it back or upping the points a little based on more results. Seeing a more narrow victory and a narrow loss at 1200 is more reassuring though. Event Heroes of this scale have traditionally been harder to balance.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Yea I’m good with going into testing at 1200 and either toning it back or upping the points a little based on more results. Seeing a more narrow victory and a narrow loss at 1200 is more reassuring though. Event Heroes of this scale have traditionally been harder to balance.

It's your proposal to make.

[tcglkn]

No waiting period? I propose we move this to public playtesting.

[Scapemage]

No waiting period. Everybody seems to not know about this particular thing so perhaps we need to find a good place to repost our procedures.

yea for Playtesting.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Scapemage

No waiting period. Everybody seems to not know about this particular thing so perhaps we need to find a good place to repost our procedures.

yea for Playtesting.

Really I think we just need to bite the bullet and overhaul that Procedures thread. It's only getting more out of date. An update there has been on my to-do list for a while, but I've been too busy to tackle it lately.

yea

[Scapemage]

Yeah I feel you, there are a couple of things I would like to hit too. I need to organize my to-dos.

[Karat]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

With my pre-yea, that’s five, so this passes! I’m not going to try to post this from my phone, though.

[tcglkn]

Arch said he was gonna retest now that he understands how the Avatar power works.

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

(These are the tests I played incorrectly. I missed the fact that all OMs had to go on Phoenix Force in order to create an Avatar, thus the Avatar was bonding with the other Stepford Cuckoos. Probably didn't make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, as the benefit of having a fairly weak additional attack meant bringing the easily-killed Stepfords up into the line of fire.)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Phoenix Force

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Captain America C3G, Hawkeye 1, Black Widow, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Thor, Spider-Man Hasbro (1530) VS Phoenix Force, Stepford Cuckoo x4 (1520)

Spoiler Alert!

Cap makes everyone besides Spidey an Avenger. Winter Soldier chooses Stepford 1 for his Mark. Phoenix makes Stepford 2 the Avatar. Stepford 2 & 3 move out. Cap moves out and throws his shield at Stepford 2 but is blocked. Stepford 3 inflicts a wound on Cap, then Stepford 2 engages Cap and is blocked. Black Widow puts a wound on Stepford 3. Stepfords bring Cap to 3 wounds. Hawkeye puts a second wound on Stepford 3.

Phoenix chooses Stepford 2 as Avatar. Black Widow engages Stepford 3 and destroys her. Stepford 1 moves up and Stepford 2 leaves height to engage Black Widow and inflicts 3 wounds. Black Widow disengages to shoot at Stepford 1, inflicting a wound. Phoenix Force kills Captain America (he apparently can’t do this all day). Black Widow takes a disengagement wound then attacks Stepford 1, bringing her to 3 wounds. Stepfords kill Black Widow to end the round.

Phoenix chooses Stepford 2 as Avatar. Stepford 2 puts a wound on Winter Soldier, then he takes another from disengaging. Winter Soldier kills Stepford 1 then goes into cryogenic stasis. Stepford engages 3 Avengers then attacks Thor but is blocked. Thor puts 2 wounds on Stepford 3, which also puts 1 on Thor and Spider-Man. Stepford’s attack is blocked. Thor destroys Stepford 3 which also puts 1 wound on Thor and Spidey and 2 on Falcon.

Winter Soldier chooses Stepford 4 as his Mark and re-enters the battle. Phoenix makes Stepford 4 her Avatar. Winter Soldier puts 3 wounds on Stepford. Stepford puts 3 wounds on Thor. Winter Soldier engages Stepford then his attack is blocked. Stepford engages Thor as well but her attack is blocked. Thor is blocked. Stepford is blocked.

Stepford is blocked. Thor kills Stepford but takes 2 wounds for the trouble (bringing him to 7 wounds). Winter Soldier goes into stasis. Phoenix moves up while Thor waits. Phoenix moves up a little. Thor moves to height and uses God of Thunder Strike but whiffs.

Bucky returns but can’t choose Phoenix as his Mark since she’s an Event Hero. Thor attacks but is blocked. Phoenix returns the favor and is blocked. Thor only inflicts a single wound on Phoenix, which kills him as well. Phoenix puts a wound on Hawkeye. Hawkeye engages Phoenix from height and inflicts a wound. Phoenix brings Hawkeye to 2 wounds.

Phoenix is blocked. Hawkeye is blocked. Phoenix puts a wound on Hawkeye. Spidey moves away from Falcon and uses Web but is blocked. Phoenix kills Hawkeye. Winter Soldier brings Phoenix to 4 wounds.

Phoenix puts 2 wounds on Bucky. Bucky is blocked. Bucky takes 2 wounds, and so does Phoenix (which kills Bucky). Falcon blocks. Phoenix blocks.

Phoenix kills Falcon, then Spidey avoids her attack. They go back and forth trading attacks, with Spidey able to avoid engagement with Swing Line. Spidey doesn’t have the stats to damage Phoenix though, so he falls after a few turns.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Phoenix Force with 4 wounds wins.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Wolverine, Parasite, Poison Ivy 2, Green Arrow 1, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Aquaman 1 VS Phoenix Force, Stepford Cuckoo x4 (1520)

Spoiler Alert!

Phoenix makes Stepford 1 her Avatar. Stepford 1 moves out, as does Hawkgirl. Hawkgirl attacks Stepford 1 while Stepford attacks Aquaman. Aquaman takes 3 wounds, Stepford takes 2.

Shayera can’t give more than one wound at a time, it seems, bringing Stepford to 3 wounds while inflicting one on herself and Aquaman too. The other Stepfords move up in turns this time, while Aquaman gets killed without doing a thing. Hawkgirl kills Stepford 1, taking a wound and wiping the rest of Stepford’s OMs in the process. Hawkgirl moves up.

Phoenix makes Stepford 3 her Avatar. Hawkgirl swoops down to attack the Avatar twice, inflicting 3 wounds (1 to herself) then killing the Avatar (1 wound to herself and 1 to Stepford 2). All the OMs were on Stepford 2 to maximize the bonding, and so the downsides to this strategy have revealed itself. Hawkgirl uses her other two turns to wipe out the Stepford Cuckoos entirely.

Phoenix kills Hawkgirl then moves up. Green Arrow rolls a natural 20 for skill shot to put 3 wounds on Phoenix. Phoenix attacks Parasite from height but is blocked.

Hawkman attacks twice with 8 dice, but is blocked both times. Phoenix puts 2 wounds on Hawkman. Hawkman puts 2 wounds on Phoenix, taking 2 wounds in return. Phoenix disengages from Hawkman to grab height then destroy him. Phoenix puts 2 wounds on Green Arrow.

Phoenix kills Green Arrow. Parasite puts a wound on Phoenix (taking a wound) then is blocked. Phoenix brings Parasite to 4 wounds. Parasite puts another wound on Phoenix which causes his death. Phoenix attacks Poison Ivy but is blocked. Wolverine attacks but is blocked.

Wolverine misses. Phoenix puts a wound on Ivy. Wolverine puts a wound on Phoenix (inflicting 2 on himself and 1 on Ivy), then attacks twice more, which kills the Phoenix Force for good.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Wolverine with 2 wounds, Poison Ivy with 3 wounds.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Bonding with non-Avatar Stepfords might not have been the best strategy, because it meant they were easy targets to avoid Phoenix Fire. That said, they protected Phoenix Force herself from harm. Trying to kill Phoenix Force directly is probably a smart strategy so you can stop her effectively getting extra life with the Avatars.

In my second game, I kept the non-Avatar Stepfords back while moving them up one by one (to maximize their special attack. This backfired horribly, since the Avatar was alone and fairly easily slain, wasting my OMs for the round. Had my OMs been on Phoenix Force, I would have been able to counterattack and not lose the rest of my telepaths.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Tons of fun. Phoenix Force is a true event hero. Phoenix Fire and Cosmic Inferno makes her (and her Avatars) very formidable to take down.

[tcglkn]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

(This is the test I played correctly, with all OMs on Phoenix Force when she creates an Avatar.)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Phoenix Force

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Batman 1, Batman Terry, Robin Tim, Superman 2, Wonder Woman 2, Plastic Man (1435) VS Phoenix Force, Psylocke (1450)

Spoiler Alert!

Phoenix Force chooses Psylocke as her Avatar to get the auto-skull and auto-shield + counter strike when adjacent. Psylocke moves up. Supes moves up and uses heat vision but misses. Psylocke engages Superman and is blocked. Supes disengages and uses heat vision on Phoenix Force, inflicting 4 wounds! Phoenix Force puts 3 wounds on Supes. Supes engages Phoenix Force and is blocked.

Supes puts 2 wounds on Phoenix Force but takes 1 in doing so. Phoenix Force puts 2 wounds on Supes. Supes puts 2 more wounds on Phoenix Force (8 total) and dies to Phoenix Fire. Psylocke engages Plastic Man and puts 3 wounds on him. Batman Beyond and Robin attack Psylocke from height but fail. Psylocke puts 2 wounds on Robin.

Batman Beyond puts 3 wounds on Psylocke, killing Robin and putting a wound on Plastic Man. Psylocke finishes off Plastic Man. Wonder Woman engages Phoenix Force and is blocked. Psylocke puts 4 wounds on Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman attacks and gets 2 wounds from Master Martial Artist, but her second attack inflicts a wound (which kills Wonder Woman). Psylocke puts a wound on Batman Beyond.

Psylocke kills Batman Beyond. Batman rolls 2 skulls for a Batarang and takes Psylocke down. Phoenix Force & Bats move up. Phoenix Force rolls 5 skulls, but Batman uses Evasive Strike. He then finishes off Phoenix Force with a punch.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Batman 1 with 1 wound wins!

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Felt balanced overall. There were some big swings this game. Superman absolutely wailed on Phoenix Force before dying which was key. Psylocke wrecked the rest of the heroes, taking out Robin, Plastic Man, Wonder Woman, and Batman Beyond fairly easily. Batman got fairly lucky in the end but his team deserved some good luck after Wonder Woman’s awful results.

Phoenix Force is a pretty interesting unit to play. You have to keep the Force safe because that boost to the Avatar is pretty insanely powerful. But with a close loss here, and 1-1 in my misplayed games, I’m pretty comfortable saying Phoenix Force is pretty balanced. Phoenix Force is a lot better against mid-level heroes. Figures like Superman or Thor who can inflict several wounds at a time get hurt less from Phoenix Fire. And healers like Wolverine can just tank the wounds without much problem.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Tons of fun. Phoenix Force is a true event hero. Phoenix Fire and Cosmic Inferno makes her (and her Avatars) very formidable to take down. Apologies for misplaying the first two games earlier.

One question: Do you have to choose a figure without the Phoenix Fire, Flying, or Super Strength special powers in order to replaces the Move, Range, Attack, and Defense values on its card with the values on this card. It currently reads like you have to not have any of those powers to get Phoenix Force's stats, but I feel like intuitively anyone you choose just gains the special powers they don't have and also uses Phoenix Force's stats. This didn’t come up in my armies but I considered using Cable for his double attack.

Thank you for your tests. The intent with the Avatar power is that is gains the abilities it does not have (to prevent Phoenix Fire from stacking with Phoenix). We will look at the wording and potentially include an FAQ.