The Book of Kitana

[Arkham]

Thanks for the tests!

I'd be interested in who wins 1 on 1 fights between the two, based on your comparisons. I'd give Kitana's setup the edge personally, but it seems you're thinking the other way around.

Regardless, I would gladly see her points drop to the 170-175 range if playtesting warrants it. That's what I estimated her thematic value at, so I'd rather see it go closer to that than go up. We'll see what other results entail.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Thanks for the tests!

I'd be interested in who wins 1 on 1 fights between the two, based on your comparisons. I'd give Kitana's setup the edge personally, but it seems you're thinking the other way around.

Regardless, I would gladly see her points drop to the 170-175 range if playtesting warrants it. That's what I estimated her thematic value at, so I'd rather see it go closer to that than go up. We'll see what other results entail.

Even if they're evenly matched or Kitana has a slight edge 1-1, which wouldn't surprise me that much, then I'd still say bringing her in at Karai's points level was a bit high - I'd say about 10 Points of Karai's cost accounts for how major a boon Ninja Leadership is for a swarmy Foot/Hand army, a support effect Kitana has no equivalent for.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Ronin

(Also, strictly speaking, when you're building around Star-Lord, you're not usually looking for an Assassin in particular - you're just looking for someone that isn't any of the classes you've already got in your army, so the search is broader than that)

This is generally true - most of the time if you're considering Kitana with Star-Lord, you're comparing her to things like Speedball or Bug or Blade.

An important caveat to the above is that when you can smuggle in some class/species synergies (especially bonding) into a Star-Lord build it can be powerful. In this case the only solid Star-Lord eligible synergies she has are humans (Masahiro and Kingpin). There's a long list of human figures that allow for multiple turns in S-L builds - Amanda Waller, Bucky, Kingpin, Masahiro, Iron Man Mk5, The Hood, Two Face 2, Yukio, Casey Jones, Robin (Damian/Dick), Mad Thinker. It's common enough that it's not a major concern.

The flip side to the above point is that bonding in a Star-Lord build that doesn't eat the human slot (Rover, Robot, Zombie, Harley Quinn, MM2) is rare; these are the ones where you definitely want to test with S-L.

[Scapemage]

Any army recommendations here? I would like to do some public playtesting this week, and Kitana is the oldest unit up to bat that doesn't have a lot of tests already in the works.

EDIT: Also, I've been seeing a lot of playtests coming through with extremely small sized games (350-600 points). Is this normal now? The last time I heavily playtested, around 1000 was super standard for all testing, and we never dipped below 750 for pretty much anything.

[Tornado]

Depends on the figure. For the lower point figures, lower point armies are much better.
It is easy to lose the effectiveness of a low point figure in big games. The 300+ figures really need the bigger games to have the points to build around them.

I generally shoot for around 600-1000 myself.

I would try at least one match with a Hand Ninja build.

[Lazy Orang]

I'm generally shooting for smaller tests when I can both to keep it more focussed and so I can better find the time! There are certainly plenty of times when larger games are needed, but a lot of the time, I like to go smaller. I sometimes run one game at a smaller level to follow it up with a 1,000 range game.

[Ronin]

I usually like to run at least ~450? Any smaller than that, and I worry about whether I'm diverging too much from typical battle conditions. Generally, though, my advice is to go as small as you can while still allowing the possibility for the unit to work at its peak effectiveness. That way, it's easier to isolate the effect the test unit is having.

[Scapemage]

Here we are! Please see my end notes for some questions about wording and intent, and my thoughts on her in general.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Kitana

Army Test
Map: Kaltengeist
Units: Kitana (185), Lady Shiva, Huntress, Hand Ninja x2 (700) vs. Amazon Warriors x2, Wonder Girl, Wonder Woman II (710)

Spoiler Alert!

In the first round, most of the characters advance toward the middle of the map. Some attacks by Hand Ninja are made unsuccessfully, and Wonder Girl takes out one Ninja, allowing some Warriors to take a good position.



Second round's initiative goes to the Assassins, allowing Kitana to run past a Warrior and miss her twice while moving to high ground. Some Hand Ninjas move onto the higher ground and take out one Warrior. Huntress is wounded by a 5-power Spear Volley, and the Warriors retreat in response. Kitana pops out and misses Wonder Girl twice, then pops back to her hiding place. Hand Ninja eliminate 2 more Warriors. Wonder Girl flies around and pulls Huntress to her, but misses, taking a return wound. Huntress moves to even ground and whacks Wonder Girl, killing her. Wonder Woman comes to play and wipes out a Hand Ninja to end the round.

Amazons get initiative and Warriors move but can't take down any Hand Ninja. Kitana moves and takes out 2 Warriors in one turn, one in melee and then one at range. Wonder Woman tries to hit Shiva but is met with a return wound, then an angry Shiva slices Wonder Woman for 5 wounds. Wonder Woman hopes for decent rolls and obtains them, but Shiva's defense is too high, and Wonder Woman falls. Finally, Kitana walks in to eliminate the final Amazon Warrior.



Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): 4/6 Hand Ninja, Lady Shiva unwounded, Kitana unwounded, Huntress w/ 1 wound.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Kaltengeist
Units: Kitana (185), Bullseye, Ra's al Ghul, Boomerang, Merlyn, Elite League Assassins (1000) vs. Frankenstein, Ursa Major, Abomination C3G (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

In round one, all the Creatures advance and quickly lock into threat range with their movement abilities. The Assassins advance Kitana, Boomerang, and Merlyn, and some shots are fired all around, ending in just one wound on Boomerang.

In round 2, Creatures take it, and Frankenstein wastes no time eliminating Boomerang with one well-placed blow. Without Creature Command due to Boomerang's corpse, the turn passes to the Assassins, allowing Kitana to deal 2 wounds to Ursa Major thanks to Steel Fan Assault's bonus damage. She then pops out of engagement with Ursa, and Frankenstein goes hunting for Merlyn. Creature Command sees Abomination waltzing over to Ra's and whacking him for 3 wounds, and Merlyn can't help but miss Frankie. Frankie misses Merlyn but Abomination takes out Ra's before the Lazarus Pit could be placed!

In the next round, Kitana moves up to Ursa Major and manages to deal one wound with each of her attacks, which ends up being a grand total of 4 wounds, killing him and taking out the first 2 turns of the Creature's round. Kitana again goes, moving to high ground to range Abomination. Elite League Assassins surround Abomination and wound him once. Frankie misses Merlyn again but Abomination takes out a squad figure and fails the throw roll on another.

Abomination wins initiative and takes out another Assassin, throwing the final Assassin, who charges back to deal 2 wounds. After a turn of misses by the Creatures, Bullseye pelts Abomination with Deadly Aim for 3 more wounds. Frankenstein makes headway and gets Merlyn to 1 life, then Abomination engages and misses Bullseye. Kitana hits Frankie at range for 1 damage, which becomes 2 forcefully and is therefore healed.

Bullseye gets initiative and takes a leaving engagement hit from Abomination in order to kill him with Deadly Aim. Meanwhile, Frankenstein kills Merlyn at long last. Kitana misses a range attack, and Frankie comes into a lower level, but Fan Lift misses. Kitana takes 2 wounds, then ducks away to shoot Frankie again, hoping to deal at least 2 wounds on the dice to actually cause some damage. She misses, and Frankie engages again to a missed Fan Lift, putting Kitana down to 1 life.

Frankenstein's initiative holds true, and Kitana dies. Frankie moves again, but misses a shot at Bullseye. After a few more rounds, Frankenstein takes the game, barely.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Frankenstein w/ 4 wounds.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: (fill in here)

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: My testing raised two interesting questions. Firstly, Steel Fan Assault is worded in such a way that Kitana can attack an adjacent figure, kill it, then proceed to use her second attack at range. Is this intended? I played with this ruling.

Secondly, I am not sure, but Stealth Combat and Steel Fan Assault together seem to suggest that Kitana can attack once, move, then attack again. Is this intended? I did NOT play with this ruling.

Kitana is fun! She has extreme depth despite seeming to be simple at face value. There are a lot of intricacies and options with her that I did not initially realize looking at the card. Fan Lift was only attempted twice and did not hit either time, but it's mere presence encourages her kiting strategy. In both games, particularly the second, she was effective, and I was surprised at by how much in Game 2. She seems really close, but perhaps a 5-15 point bump would do her good.

[Arkham]

Thanks for the tests! Appreciated!

The first attack has to be in melee, then she can attack again from melee or range. Doesn't have to be against the same figure, and she can definitely move after the first and/or second attack. Basically, she can expend her full movement at any point. This allows her to hit in melee, then from range, hoping to get the opponent to re-engage her making Fan Lift possible again.

[Arkham]

Looking over the tests, I'm pretty happy with her finishing at 185. I think with her going 2-2 after the drop in life, and in her most dominant win, it looks like she wasn't the biggest factor that led to the win. With 1 tester suggesting a small point drop, and another suggesting a small point raise, I feel with both sets combined, 185 feels reasonable as-is.

I propose a vote to move Kitana to Final Editing.
@japes
@Ronin
@Yodaking - yea
@Spidey'tilIDie
@Tornado - yea
@johnny139 - yea
@SirGalahad

[Yodaking]

yea

[Tornado]

Yea