4th Mass or 10th regiment

[Revdyer]

What if we didn't have any hypothetical speculations?

[Revdyer]

(That, obviously, was someone else's line, but I can't remember whose...Steven Wright's maybe?)

[scorpiusx]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Eclipse put it better than I probably could, so I'll quote him for you here. The underlines are my addition.

While I am not inclined to say that one squad is better than the other between the two musket wielding groups, I'll have to throw in my two cents. Basically, a "turtle grinder" is basically bunking out in a nearly invincible position and blowing apart any troops that advance, right? There are two big flaws in this particular build that favor the redcoats and not the 4th Mass.

First off, there is always the chance that the enemy will have fast squads that can get to your ranged units before they have a chance to strike. The Fyorlag Spiders and Venoc Vipers immediately come to mind here for me. Naturally, you will not only lose your WTFire bonus with the 4th Mass., but you will also lose your formation if you go after speedy squads. However, the Redcoats' Melee Defense allows some extra cushioning from these dangerously quick squads, allowing them to potentially keep a formation longer.

Secondly, this strategy has a problem with long range units. For example, squads of AA can steadily pluck away at your formation from a distance and force the Mass. to break their WTFire bonus. The 10th, on the other hand, can switch to plan B, and charge the AA (or other long range squad) with bayonets, still getting a bonus if they are in melee. And not too many ranged squads can handle the redcoats up close.

Just my

[King of the Marro]

I stand neutral as I havn't played with or against the 4th Mass. or 10th Reg. yet.
Good points Elffy.

[Euryon]

A better turtle strategy, Scorpius, is to build a 500 pointer such as:

2x 10th - 150
2x Greeks - 250
Parmenio - 340
Marcus - 440
Deadeye Dan - 500

Parmenio disciplines Dan so the Greeks get their defense boost.
Deadeye Dan snipes any enemy long rangers, forcing them to come closer or move in melee figures.
The 10th have the option of WTF with Marcus and probably height, with the Greeks and 2 OK Warlords to act as melee buffers or mop-ups. Could swap out the greeks and Parmenio (190) for 2 Romans and another 10th with 15 points to spare.

So an alternative is:

3x 10th (225)
2x Romans (325)
Marcus (425)
Deadeye (485)
15 points of filler (One of the ninjas; Isamu or the new one)

[Elf_Archer]

10th Regiment of Foot are vulnerable to the SotM Sgt. Drake.

By the way, the 10th regiment were present during the British Gulf War, not the American Revolution.

But I think 5 points is worth the advantage so 10th RotF is the way to go unless facing the new Drake.

[MechaBeast]

I don't know if anyone said this yet but the 10th do get a nice advantage of a first stirke when up against Gurei-Oni.
The tenth can get an extra die by charging into the fray while the 4th either have to risk evil eye or get attacked first.

[Elf_Archer]

Originally Posted by Euryon

A better turtle strategy, Scorpius, is to build a 500 pointer such as:

2x 10th - 150
2x Greeks - 250
Parmenio - 340
Marcus - 440
Deadeye Dan - 500

Parmenio disciplines Dan so the Greeks get their defense boost.
Deadeye Dan snipes any enemy long rangers, forcing them to come closer or move in melee figures.
The 10th have the option of WTF with Marcus and probably height, with the Greeks and 2 OK Warlords to act as melee buffers or mop-ups. Could swap out the greeks and Parmenio (190) for 2 Romans and another 10th with 15 points to spare.

So an alternative is:

3x 10th (225)
2x Romans (325)
Marcus (425)
Deadeye (485)
15 points of filler (One of the ninjas; Isamu or the new one)

You mean Otonash.

BTW, don't negative rep me because my 2 posts are on different thoughts or ideas so I think I should seperate them.

[soberman]

Originally Posted by Elf_Archer

By the way, the 10th regiment were present during the British Gulf War, not the American Revolution.

Which makes sense, because they lost that latter war, and so would have had to be made to lose to the 4th. Making them from a differnt war/era allows the designers flexibility in making them a little bit more of a match for the 4th.

But I think 5 points is worth the advantage so 10th RotF is the way to go unless facing the new Drake.

I think everyone is forgetting that Sir Gilbert enables the 4th to move and get the "wait then fire" bonus in the same round. They have greater mobility than the 10th in this way.

Also, the 4th with Captain America is still one of the best armies many of you will never try.

Don't Libertarians support the flat tax? I like that particular concept my own self.
_______________________
now playing: WYEP http://www.wyep.org

[RageAngel]

Just my view -

If you build an army around the 4th, you usually want it to be all valiant so they have +1 defense stat. With that in mind, they are an incredibly solid unit (as we all know).

If you have a mixed army, or are building an army around another concept and need ranged units, or are drafting and are unable to get other good units that are valiant, the 10th seem more attractive. There are going to be times in most games when you need to move your WTF ranged squads; with the 10th they have the option to rush the enemy and and gain a melee bonus at the same time that they sacrifice their WTF bonus - the 4th usually have to "fall back" or lose the WTF bonus for a turn to reposition, conceding momentum.

I don't think you can definitively pick one unit as better than the other. Both have situations where they perform better than the other unit.

Also, the 4th with Captain America is still one of the best armies many of you will never try.

I've used it, and that is just awesome. In a four player 500 pt game, they even toppled Thanos after all 3 of the other players turned against me.

[Heroscape Elffy]

Originally Posted by Elf_Archer

You mean Otonash.

No, he means Otonashi. I still think these guys are going to be awesome. No matter how much people will like these guys, the 4th Mass will always hold a special place in our hearts. They were the first 'way back' soldiers we got...from America. Thank you 4th Mass.