The Heroscapers Pokemon Tourney thread

[Kaiser Cat]

This is the thread for a HSers Black and White tourney.

The event will (Probably) be held on May 7th.

The rules will be Flat Battle, with each match being best out of 3. This means that all of your pokemon should be level 50 or higher.

The prize is either a low level or egg form of _______

The following Pokemon are banned:
Wobuffet, Mewtwo, Mew, Ho-oh, Lugia, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Deoxys, Girantina, Dialga, Palkia, Arceus, Darkrai, Reshiram, Kyurem, Zekrom, and any pokemon you would need to hack the game to obtain (Meoletta, Genesect, or Keldeo).

The following Items are banned:
Soul Dew.

The following people are participating:
Kaiser Cat (1893 0934 3344)
DrAwsm (2193 6941 7931)
Vilsara (4169 3942 4511)

If you are participating make sure every participant is registered in your pal pad.

[Kaiser Cat]

I want the first post to look official, so I'll put my thoughts down here.

Prizes: Someone suggested Zorua eggs. I like this idea.

Banned Items: I want to keep this to a minimum.

Also, I was thinking that, to stop people from only using legendaries that aren't banned and ubers, we could limit everyone to two pokemon that fall into those groups.

[Jormi_Boced]

I am interested. What level will our pokemon need to be to compete?

[DrAwsm]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat

I want the first post to look official, so I'll put my thoughts down here.

Prizes: Someone suggested Zorua eggs. I like this idea.

Banned Items: I want to keep this to a minimum.

Also, I was thinking that, to stop people from only using legendaries that aren't banned and ubers, we could limit everyone to two pokemon that fall into those groups.

That could end up very badly. Even one Pokemon from those groups is powerful enough on a team. I'm thinking that we should allow only Pokemon from Smogon's OU tier. The list can be found http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=156 <-- there.

However, that list includes one for Kyurem. We can keep him banned, or allow him for the tournament. That can be decided by a vote.

ALSO! We need a definite answer as to whether or not legally hacked Pokemon will be allowed. I'd be willing to train Pokemon for the purpose of battling in this tournament, but I think we should make a decision soon so we have time to begin training.

[Kaiser Cat]

The link you gave only takes me to a forum index. What am I supposed to be looking at?

Originally Posted by Jormi_Boced

I am interested. What level will our pokemon need to be to compete?

I was thinking of trying to do a flat battle, which would mean level 50 or higher. Of course, the problem there is that it would only allow for 3 or 4 pokemon per battle, which people might not like. On the other hand, not choosing flat battle would probably end in everything needing to be level 100, which would be a problem for people training pokemon just for the tourney. (Time restrictions and all that.)

[DrAwsm]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat

The link you gave only takes me to a forum index. What am I supposed to be looking at?

All of those threads contain sets and whatnot for highly competitive Pokemon. Those are all considered OU, or Over Used.

[Kaiser Cat]

Originally Posted by DrAwsm

All of those threads contain sets and whatnot for highly competitive Pokemon. Those are all considered OU, or Over Used.

So, anything not in the stickied ban list?

[DrAwsm]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat

So, anything not in the stickied ban list?

Pretty much, yeah. The only exception I'm thinking is Wobbuffet (since you need another Wobbuffet to break the Shadow Tag) and possibly Kyurem.

[Kaiser Cat]

Originally Posted by DrAwsm

Pretty much, yeah. The only exception I'm thinking is Wobbuffet (since you need another Wobbuffet to break the Shadow Tag) and possibly Kyurem.

Well, the ones I was when I mentioned the "Two of these only" rule aren't in that list. Looking back, I was unclear, but I meant pseudo-ledgendaries and things like Uxie, Registeel, or Terrakinion.

[Vilsara]

I'm participating; my code is 4169 3942 4511.

It seems that the structure of the tourney is currently up in the air; input from participants (maybe an eventual vote) to decide how this should play will definitely be a boon.

My quick, dirty, and opinionated ideas for the tourney:

-I agree with your banned 'Mons list with the added possibility of Wobbuffett.

-I agree with your banned items list.

-I believe that EV training should be allowed, but RNG abuse, Pokesav, and all forms of hacking should not.

-Each participant may use up to twelve Pokemon from their collection for use in any of their tournament matches.* This will help foster variety and would keep everyone on their toes- even if two participants were to communicate their opponent's Pokemon, they wouldn't be able to pin down all of them.

-As for the structure, a straightforward Single Battle structure will work best. If we want to really get fancy, perhaps the semifinal and final rounds could be Doubles...

Spoilers for reasons behind each choice. Beware, it's a pretty thick wall.

Spoiler Alert!

-BAN LIST: Most cover legendaries are statistically better, that's no surprise, so to allow them would be very centralizing. Though adding Wobbuffett makes this seem more like a Smogon-fest, banning him will be healthier for the tourney, discouraging vanilla setup strategies and generally keeping players from tearing their hair out.

Garchomp and Salamence, while both very powerful, are handleable in a Wi-Fi environment, to allow them would not affect most player's lineup or ideals.

In regards to items, Game Freak has been very good about balancing held items. None of them are really broken in the sense that each provides a fair boost with drawbacks for the most powerful of the lot. Soul Dew doesn't fall under the same umbrella, giving the equivalent of a Choice Specs boost with no drawback and the same level boost to Special Defense to boot. Sure, it's only for two Pokemon, but they're both outstanding Pokemon in their own right, and the boosts from Soul Dew would definitely put them in the 680 BST range.

-EV TRAINING: In my experience, EV training does not make a Pokemon any stronger than a non-EV trained one. EV training is simply a technique for placing extra effort into a particular stat in order to help strengthen a Pokemon's purpose on a team. I've been thrashed by players who don't give a care in the wind about EVs and Pokerus and even held items, because they still outplayed me and put together a very good team.

On a related note, there seems to be a quagmire about whether the tourney should be "casual" or "competitive." It seems that everyone is only seeing black and white here (please, please, please pardon the pun). There's a pretty wide gray area between the two- I think that "strategic" is the proper word to describe it. This tourney can handle both EV trainers and more casual players because, really, we all know enough about the game to be a threat, whether we're training glass cannon sweepers or teaching our favorite Pokemon an unexpected counterattack.

-TWELVE POKEMON RULE: I think that limiting each player to a single setup of Pokemon is a bit dry; in the anime and elsewhere, characters are constantly demonstrating large collections of powerful Pokemon. While I wouldn't go so far to let each player have an unlimited number of options (I feel that would lead to counterteaming against those with less options, which isn't chivalrous or enjoyable), giving players a handful of Pokemon to choose from would let them spice it up between each match.

-BATTLE STYLE: On the other hand, a tired-and-true Single Battle setup, while completely dry, is the traditional way to battle, and is the most accessible out of all the modes. In order to test the top players' ability to adapt, Double battles for the last rounds of the tourney, if only for the super-epic-twist mindset.

*Of course, if we're doing this, we'd have to have someone who isn't participating keep track of each battler's Pokemon. That may be a bit convoluted in the long run, especially if we have to do routine checks of who used what, when, etc.


AHHH EDIT I missed a lot while writing this essay. Kaiser, most non-Uber legendaries are balanced enough to warrant free usage on them; while restricting them would be nice to encourage variety, it'd feel like discriminating against Pokemon just because they're "rare."

[Kaiser Cat]

As for the 12 pokemon idea-That actually lends support to just using flat battle. It takes away the problems of raising everything to level 100 and the problem of swapping out teams. You keep the essential concept of not sticking with a fixed team every battle.

Also, both to compensate for the limited number of pokemon in flat battle (If we choose to use that) and to make Hax less of an annoyance, I propose we make all of the tourney battles best out of 3.

[MegaSilver]

I won't know for sure if I can participate until the week before the tourney.

I can provide any Pokemon at any level up to Gen 4. Yes, I obtain them through AR, but the cheat only works for level selection and nothing else. If no one really wants them because they'll "hacked," then I'll find something else to give.