Valleydwellers II: Epic Battle of All Time (Event Pics p.5)

[Satyr]

1more, that is all as I expected. thanks.

Alastair and I were playing today and came to the realization that the extra turn the attacker would get before the first round is kinda broken if you have a dragon. The maps are small enough that Mimring can rush in, flame your starting zone, pull back, and then again get another more conservative fireline attack ... potentially doing some extreme devastation without repercussions.

We played today that the attacker gets auto initiative and then uses the "x" marker as a fourth turn in first round. After that all is normal.

Just some thoughts …

[Alastair MacDirk]

Originally Posted by Satyr

1more, that is all as I expected. thanks.

Alastair and I were playing today and came to the realization that the extra turn the attacker would get before the first round is kinda broken if you have a dragon. The maps are small enough that Mimring can rush in, flame your starting zone, pull back, and then again get another more conservative fireline attack ... potentially doing some extreme devastation without repercussions.

We played today that the attacker gets auto initiative and then uses the "x" marker as a fourth turn in first round. After that all is normal.

Just some thoughts …

About 5 minutes too late amigo.

[1moreheroscaper]

Wow! Alastair you have really brought out the big-guns of intimidation. I did think about prizes originally, but I didn't get much response on it. I was thinking booster packs, or some cash that could be spent at the store by the winning team.

I don't now...maybe I shouldn't show up on Saturday. You gave me all this information now...I still have to work this week, too many nights of restless sleep. I have prepared my army pool, I just need to get final word from another team-mate.

-As for the free 1st turn, I did play around with that more this past weekend, and yes it can be very helpful for the castle maps too--though I didn't considered Mimring! I do agree that the 4th turn with the X marker will be best. Heck, the gauranteed initiative for the first 2 rounds is helpful.

-I do like the option of continuing a castle attack. We can still calculate points for the battle (but put it on hold at the end of 45-50 min.) to determine team Morale. All figures stay on that map in their ending positions, and new troops--bringing both armies back up to point limits with replacements army cards--are place on the map edges in the starting zones. I also think, that unique cards that were destroyed in a castle battle CANNOT be re-summoned into the same battle(if it continues).
-We a team continues to attack a castle, it automatically counts as one of their two declared battles.

-I have now updated the elevations for the Basic Snow and Lava maps.
I plan on updating the first post with all of our update rules/clarifications on Wednesday 2/21.

[Alastair MacDirk]

Since attacker gets 4 turns for the price of 3 in round one.... then why does attacker also need initiative in round 2??? I am devil's advocating here (as per the usual)... but don't quite understand why attacker gets so much help. If attacker goes 1st and last in Round 1, then gets initiative in round 2, you are giving attacker another free chance at moving 2x without a parry from defender. Of course this could happen naturally by winning initiative naturally by rolling, but it is a HUGE strategic difference if you know for sure you are getting it. Let's take the case of a castle assault.... end of round 1- I move my Einar Imperium w/in striking distance of the castle parapet ( I know defender can't shoot down on me with 5 dice 4x from his 4th Mass). Then start of round 2- I am adjacent to them doing double strikes. It's alot more of stretegic decision to time when to attempt to breach the walls if you are not guaranteed that double move.

Make a case why attacker needs so much help? I am fairly convinced however that it most likely breaks the game and tips the balance too far in favor of attacker.

[1moreheroscaper]

Originally Posted by Alastair MacDirk

Since attacker gets 4 turns for the price of 3 in round one.... then why does attacker also need initiative in round 2??? I am devil's advocating here (as per the usual)... but don't quite understand why attacker gets so much help. If attacker goes 1st and last in Round 1, then gets initiative in round 2, you are giving attacker another free chance at moving 2x without a parry from defender. Of course this could happen naturally by winning initiative naturally by rolling, but it is a HUGE strategic difference if you know for sure you are getting it. Let's take the case of a castle assault.... end of round 1- I move my Einar Imperium w/in striking distance of the castle parapet ( I know defender can't shoot down on me with 5 dice 4x from his 4th Mass). Then start of round 2- I am adjacent to them doing double strikes. It's alot more of stretegic decision to time when to attempt to breach the walls if you are not guaranteed that double move.


Make a case why attacker needs so much help? I am fairly convinced however that it most likely breaks the game and tips the balance too far in favor of attacker.

With the door being adjusted on the castle, and limits placed on the figures placed on the walls, there is NO need to grant the attacker automatic initiative found Round 2. Originally the 2nd auto-initiative was to allow the attacker some possibility of removing the door--also considering the time limit.

We also need to determine the life of the door--since the attacker has the option of continuing the attack for another match. I have been trying it at 8 life, but considering all other modifications, 10 life may be best.

[Alastair MacDirk]

I got no issues with the door-life especially if you've removed auto shield. The door being an obstacle is a central element of a siege I reckon.

I wanted to say in advance that I commend your courage and bravery which hopefully will serve you well this Saturday. I re-read my previous smack post and noted that I got a little soft in a sentence or too and bordered on offering sympathy for your predicament (facing 4 of the deadliest mofo's that ever threw red and blue dice) but I needed to shake myself and reboot my single purpose as an unemotional machinelike Vydar assassin coupled with the evil cunning of Utgarian hatred of all humaniod races that MUST BE MADE EXTINCT from the realms of Valhalla. To you and yours I offer no quarter. (Later Saturday evening when you are still trying to get that shell-shocked expression off your face, don't say I didn't warn you)

[1moreheroscaper]

Alstair,

Thank you for reaffirming your firmness in "smack-talk." To your comment of, "facing 4 of the deadliest mofo's that ever threw red and blue dice," I say, "true dat." Regardless of the result, I know that the Free Alliance/Valley Team will bring bravery to the day...victory will have to be decided in the aftermath...literally.

-1more

[1moreheroscaper]

Originally Posted by heretic

Awesome, gentlemen… truly awesome. A battle for all time, for the future, for control of the wellspring. So glad to be invited. I will fight honorably for the peace and stability of the New Order.

May you be an honorable foe...as we all await the Fields of Valor.

*I HAVE ALSO UPDATED THE FIRST POST--maps and castle battles.

[Satyr]

The first post is looking pretty complete ...

The desert map is missing its starting zones. Weird since I've seen it before.

More importantly the right starting zone of Snow map had a major advantage with the single 4 hex glacier. The left starting zone is basically cut in half by two 4 hex glaciers. Either the Left side needs to be opened up or the right side closed off.

Originally Posted by 1moreheroscaper

-I do like the option of continuing a castle attack. We can still calculate points for the battle (but put it on hold at the end of 45-50 min.) to determine team Morale. All figures stay on that map in their ending positions, and new troops--bringing both armies back up to point limits with replacements army cards--are place on the map edges in the starting zones. I also think, that unique cards that were destroyed in a castle battle CANNOT be re-summoned into the same battle(if it continues)

-We a team continues to attack a castle, it automatically counts as one of their two declared battles.

This is a bit vague. Lets say Brenda attacks a castle and does not have any figures in the castle at the end of time, but she does have more points left on the board. Do we gain control of that map? Can we then attack the well spring? What if there is only one knight left in the castle but squads of marro at the door? What constitutes a castle assault victory?


The new order has place for the light and the dark. Join us now and spare yourselves the pain of death and humiliation. Resistance is futile.

Long live the Empire!

[1moreheroscaper]

Satyr does this address and clarify the questions?
I just updated the first post again:

ATTACKING A CASTLE
-The defending player starts the battle controlling the CASTLE DOOR and FLAG.
-In order for an ATTACKER to claim the VICTORY AND CONTROL OF THE TERRITORY, OF A CATSLE, they must meet either one of the following conditions AT THE END OF THE BATTLE TIME LIMIT:
1) Destroy/eliminate all enemy figures on the map
OR
2) Control (or destroy) both the CASTLE DOOR and FLAG (the flag cannot be destroyed).

CALCULATING MORALE POINTS FOR CASTLE BATTLE
-At the end of the castle battle, the player controlling the Flag receives an additional 100 pts.
-At the end of the castle battle, the player controlling the door (if it had not been destroyed) receives an additional 100 pts.

CONTINUING A CASTLE BATTLE
-If a player is considering to continue the castle battle DO NOT MOVE ANY FIGURES or REMOVE ANY WOUND MARKERS ON FIGURES THAT ARE STILL IN PLAY!
-After points have been calculated and Morale determined, an attacker may choose to continue a battle against a castle. The Attack does not yet control the territory.
-If a player chooses to continue a castle battle, this will count as 1 of their team's delcared battles.
-Both players may re-fill their ranks to their starting point value, and place their new units at the edge, on land spaces, in their starting zones.

The unity you are demanding is void of free-will. Yes many may argue that our free-will may be dangerous, but the fact that we use our will for good reveals the beauty in us and in life. The light of yours, you speak of, is invisibile to us. Your light has not even a soul to sense. We will fight for the beauty of free-will.

[Alastair MacDirk]

The only question I have now re: castle assault continuation is what if say Nilfheim has only 1 life left and there is one 4th mass left. The Jandar player restocks his troops at the boards edge and deducts for the figures left? Or just adds x amt. of points. You see what I'm asking is maybe he'd be better off if Nilfheim were dead than subtracting 185 pts. and certainly that the 4th mass were wiped out instead of subtracting 70. We should come up with a static pt. value that each side could add for continuation. I think 300 for defender and 450 for attacker is about right. The figures left on the board will most likely all be clustered around the castle... this gives defender a nice advantage on the restart as he can come out shooting while attacker spends a few turns moving his pieces up to the action.

I believe that it was Kris Kristofferson that once wrote "Freedoms just another word for nothin left to lose,
And nothin aint worth nothin but its free

[1moreheroscaper]

Option 1- Static Points for Reinforcements:
-We could go with a static number for reinforcements, but that could also drive the size of an army up. Then we will have to shave-off points for all other battles--for the players army. Would we maintain the core army still, or might a player replace the core units with what were reinforcement units, when down-sizing.
-I may be okay with the static option is the point value per player is smaller.

Option 2- Prorated Army Card Points
We could also prorate army cards--which could get messy too.
-Round up to the nearest 5 points.

Ex.1. Q-9 with 3 wounds, 180/4 = 45 points per wound. Q-9 with 1 life remaining is worth 45pts.

Ex.2. Lets look at another figure. Jotun with 7 wounds, 225/8 = 28.125 points per wound. Jotun with 1 life remaining is worth 30 points.

Ex.3. 1 survivng Krav Maga = approx. 33 pts, rounded to 35 points

Option 3- Wounded figures and incomplete cards = full point cost:
-I still like this option the best, but I am open for more feedback from other players.
-This is a strategic play for both players. Does the opponent keep some enemy figures alive with 1 wound on purpose? Should player rush with the remaining figures of a squad because they want to have a chance at more reinforcements?
-This approach is along the lines of using Finn or Thorgrim. A player may want these figures to be eliminated so they can use the "Spirit" special, but their opponent may be willing to let that figure survive a few rounds--rather than letting the opponent cash in on any potential benefits.

OTHER PLAYERS: Please drop your 2 cents here.