Race for the presidency political discussion thread

[Malechi]

Originally Posted by Euryon

If I turn back time and add "There is no public transport where I live" - what then would be your response?

The same. To me it would all be excuses to remain at a job that you do not care for. As was my original point to begin with that people are not required to stay at a job, they do so of their own volition.

[Euryon]

So in my position you would quit? (Just to clarify)

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Malechi

Where did you get that there is no public transportation? I live in a town of approximately the same population (1,755 in 2000) and there is plenty of opportunity to get from point A to point B without a vehicle. Buses, taxis, friends, right thumb, etc., ...

I live in a town with over 10,000 people. There are no buses, don't recall seeing any taxis unless they were coming from 20+ miles away to drop someone off here, my friends have jobs and better things to do than to drop me off and pick me up from work and the right thumb might not get you to work on time every day. To earn a decent living, the majority of the people here have to work 10 - 40 miles away.

The idea that anyone can just quit their job and be back into another one right away if they want to (making comperable money) is like saying anyone can go pitch in the big leagues if all they have to do is want it.

[Malechi]

Are the people here so afraid of life that they would stay in a job they don't like?

Every job I have ever had, I had never done before. I simply went in, liked what I saw and started the next day. Nearly every job I started near the bottom and within six months I was management. After that, I simply had to make up new a title for my position every time I wanted a new raise. It is all about continuing to learn at all times and confidence in one's self and your own abilities.

Now get back out there. Grow some! And, be happy with your job; or, quit and get a new one. Enough with the excuse after excuse.

No wonder there are corporations out there that screw their employees, all I am seeing are a bunch of enablers on this forum.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Malechi

Are the people here so afraid of life that they would stay in a job they don't like?

Every job I have ever had, I had never done before. I simply went in, liked what I saw and started the next day. Nearly every job I started near the bottom and within six months I was management. After that, I simply had to make up new a title for my position every time I wanted a new raise. It is all about continuing to learn at all times and confidence in one's self and your own abilities.

Now get back out there. Grow some! And, be happy with your job; or, quit and get a new one. Enough with the excuse after excuse.

No wonder there are corporations out there that screw their employees, all I am seeing are a bunch of enablers on this forum.

So, with a family to feed and support, I am supposed to walk away from a job I dislike without having one lined up to take it's place? I am currently job hunting, looking for an opportunity to better my family's situation. It will require pulling up stakes and moving elsewhere, period. The economy in the city I live in is a mess, there are very few jobs available that provide the level of income I need to provide for the needs of a family.

I don't call it being a corporate enabler to ensure that my kids have clothes on their backs and food in their mouths. I would call it selfish and irresponsible to walk out on my job because I do not like it (which I don't). I would call it the right thing to do to stay in a job I dislike until I find one which will be of greater benifit for myself and my family (which I am doing right now).

[Malechi]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

So, with a family to feed and support, I am supposed to walk away from a job I dislike without having one lined up to take it's place? I am currently job hunting, looking for an opportunity to better my family's situation. It will require pulling up stakes and moving elsewhere, period. The economy in the city I live in is a mess, there are very few jobs available that provide the level of income I need to provide for the needs of a family.

I don't call it being a corporate enabler to ensure that my kids have clothes on their backs and food in their mouths. I would call it selfish and irresponsible to walk out on my job because I do not like it (which I don't). I would call it the right thing to do to stay in a job I dislike until I find one which will be of greater benifit for myself and my family (which I am doing right now).

I am not seeing the problem. You're looking for a new job. You do not intend to stay with the one you are currently in due to lack of income from your place of employment. You're doing what I am saying ... unless you give up and stay there.

I do not see excuses being made by you.

You are not complaining that it is too hard to find a new job. You are not complaining there are no jobs near you, you are searching and ready to go where the new job is. You are not complaining that you cannot get to a new job, you are searching one out.

This is the exact opposite of the enabler employee. Thank you for restoring my faith in people! You will do well, I can tell.

[SmoG]

Every job I have ever had, I had never done before. I simply went in, liked what I saw and started the next day. Nearly every job I started near the bottom and within six months I was management. After that, I simply had to make up new a title for my position every time I wanted a new raise. It is all about continuing to learn at all times and confidence in one's self and your own abilities.

Now I don't want to call you a liar but Being Unable to Legitimize your Ludicrous Statements, I Have Incredulous Tendencies.

Unless you're Jared from "The Pretender", in which case I apologize. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work like Primetime TV.

[Malechi]

Originally Posted by SmoG

Unless you're Jared from "The Pretender", in which case I apologize. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work like Primetime TV.

Originally Posted by Malechi

Nearly every job I started near the bottom ...

Or, did you miss that part before appearing superficially stupid?

(oh, sorry I forgot to capitalize and bold the first letter of the last three words)

[Browncoat]

[sarcasm] I have to agree with SmoG on this one.

I find it very hard to believe that hard work got you anywhere in the corporate world. Especially without some kind of lawsuit or influence from an outside special interest group or worker's union. And if you're a white male...wow, it's pretty much impossible.

To think that good old fashioned work ethic actually got someone promoted at this day and age? Bah. Hogwash. [/sarcasm]

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Malechi

Are the people here so afraid of life that they would stay in a job they don't like?

Every job I have ever had, I had never done before. I simply went in, liked what I saw and started the next day. Nearly every job I started near the bottom and within six months I was management. After that, I simply had to make up new a title for my position every time I wanted a new raise. It is all about continuing to learn at all times and confidence in one's self and your own abilities.

Now get back out there. Grow some! And, be happy with your job; or, quit and get a new one. Enough with the excuse after excuse.

No wonder there are corporations out there that screw their employees, all I am seeing are a bunch of enablers on this forum.

So what are you Mal, some kind of MacGiver that can turn a toothpick into a television?

I had a number of jobs after I got out of the Marines. As I really didn't have any marketable skills other than eagerness to work, I had to go from job to job until I ended up in painting. My first job after the Marines was driving for UPS in the Finger Lake region of New York. I had never driven a truck like that before, had just moved to the state and wasn't at all familiar with it and I had limited experience with a stick shift. I worked my nuts off (and hated it mostly but wanted to give it a fair shot) from August until the Monday after Christmas and then I came in like normal and they told me to go back on casual satus and start calling in every morning to see if they had work for me. It could take 3 months to 3 years to get on as a permanent driver, as they promoted the part time loaders first before casual drivers like me. I busted my arse, didn't take lunch and still the managers would hassle me for taking too long to run my route. Nevermind that they would change my routes often to cover for the full-timers on vacation or whatever. I made over 100 stops a day and delivered 330+ packages a day and it was never enough for those jagbags (and I was getting paid half as much as the regulars and had no benefits like they did). After they told me to start calling in again, I brought in my uniforms and told them where they could stick 'em. There was no possible way for me to be in management within six months of starting, heck, there was little chance of getting on as full time driver within six months. Oh and by the way, that is a regular practices with a lot of jobs, mostly factory/manufacturing. They allow you to work for so many days until a day or two before they are mandated to make you full time and give you a raise and benefits, then they say see ya, don't let the door hit you in the arse and hire some other group of people that they can do the same thing to.

After UPS I tried selling Kirby vacuums. The promise of big bucks and no experience was alluring to be sure. I made $65 in the month of January of 1990. I sold a shampooer attachment. Being an honest person, I had a hard time deceiving people into believing that they needed to spend $1200 on a vaccuum cleaner.

I went to work as a temp for a while doing anything from janatorial to shoveling chemical fertilizer into holes in the floor, to working in a factory that made cling wrap and plastic bags. I worked any shift and any day. I then got into a valve company that made valves for planes, helicopters, tanks, missles and even the space shuttle. I worked in the test lab and thought after a year that I had a job finally, and I liked it. There was no way that I was going to make management without college, so I signed up for classes. A few months later, they laid off 30 of the 150 people that worked there, I was one of them.

I then got a job in a fabricating shop where I learned how to run some tool and die machines, plasma cutters and some mig welding. The forman was a real jagbag and just because he had been welding since Vietnam, he thought that I should be able to pick it up just like that. He liked to yell a lot and was miserable to work for. I hated it but thought that at least if I stuck with it, I may pick up the welding part eventually and learn a good trade that would pay better eventually. Well, after learning that guys that had been there for 10 years had only just gotten raises to $10/hr ( I was making $6.50/hr after three months), one of the other workers there blew his brains out, and my hours had been cut in half, I decided to move on from that job.

I applied for the electrician's union and took the test (general bs test to say that they gave everyone a chance) and didn't get a call back. I applied to the plumber's union after taking the test with about 300 other applicants, I got a call back for an interview. I was number 72 out of 300 something or other and they only needed around thirty apprentices that year, I should try again the following year they said.

So then I applied to the painter's union in Rochester, NY and got in, because they must have prettly low standards . After three years of working during the day and taking apprentice classes twice a week at night, I graduated and made journeyman. Things went pretty well then things went crappy between me and the first wife a couple years after our daughter was born and we divorced. I moved back to the Chicago area to be with family and friends (since a lot of my friends previously were through my wife) and I got into the painting union here. I worked from that April until November and was laid off. Not a good time to go looking to get work at that time for painters. I eventually got in with another company and things were pretty good for a while, then I'd miss three months/winter or two months/winter and then six months. Work dried up.

I then decided to start my own painting business and at least be in control of my own destiny as opposed to depending on someone to keep me busy. I worked for over a year by myself until I got enough work to force/allow me to hire people. It's been a struggle this winter but is finally starting to pick up again. Now I would never tell someone that just because I was able to start a business that anyone can, because if my wife (I've remarried and have 5 year-old twins) didn't have a good job (that she has to commute two hours each way for) my business would never have had a chance. I've probably only paid myself more than the cost of my child support $100/week and daycare for the twins, $200/week, a few times since Christmas. I am owed so much from some new construction jobs that I have done but haven't gotten paid yet for and meanwhile I have to make payroll every week and pay my many business expenses. It's starting to pick up now, but there is no way I would have made it for a few months without my wife having a good job and carrying our other bills.

So while sometimes I don't like my job now, I've been there done that with other jobs that lead nowhere and at which I'm at the mercy of someone else. This is the only time since I've gotten out of the Marines in 1989, that I've had an opportunity to get into management, for I am freaking management. I'm going to make it with my business, of that I have no doubt, but it will take time until I can actually make a decent living with it and then more time before I can make a good living. I'm 40 now, so hopefully I get to the part where I'm making a good living before I'm ready to retire

[Malechi]

Originally Posted by Hahma

... My first job after the Marines was driving for UPS in the Finger Lake region of New York. I had never driven a truck like that before, had just moved to the state and wasn't at all familiar with it and I had limited experience with a stick shift. I worked my nuts off (and hated it mostly but wanted to give it a fair shot) from August until the Monday after Christmas and then I came in like normal and they told me to go back on casual satus and start calling in every morning to see if they had work for me. It could take 3 months to 3 years to get on as a permanent driver, as they promoted the part time loaders first before casual drivers like me ...

I worked with UPS as my first job when I moved to Los Angeles from Northern California. I was not as lucky as you as I was put in small sort, a couple steps above the truck loaders. After three weeks I quit as I had bruises from my knee caps to the bottom of my nipples due to the conveyor belt set up. To this day I describe the experience as the closest thing to Hell on Earth. Two days later I got a job with Dyansen Galleries, at the time the largest privately owned art gallery in the country. Six months after that I was promoted to the West Coast Warehouse Supervisor. I stayed at that job for 10 years, through two sales of the company, until upper management ran it into the ground.[/i]

[guido]

Originally Posted by Euryon

I'd love to lead a life of crime. I won't even risk a bar-fight here though - one little indiscretion and I can be sent back to the motherland.
Anyway, no mafia here, just rednecks and meth-labs.

Out here in New England, we have a plethora of mobsters. Take the two biggest Casinos, Fox Woods (the Italian Indians) and Mohegan Sun (The Chinese Indians). After that, there is a strong presence of the Greek Mafia and most likely some Russian Mafia types too. It's a lot different from the movies, but the mob is here to stay whether we like it or not.