Can Saylind summon herself? Answered 8-8-2006

[UranusPChicago]

Originally Posted by DEATHWALKER 1970

UranusPChicago...
Are you a Kirby fan? Or is it just Destroyer Duck you fancy? Or just that drawing?
And by the way, Saylind summoning herself seems a bit too creative!

Good catch, my man! Destroyer Duck by way of Kirby by way of Howard the Duck. HTD comics and magazines, genius! HTD movie, horrific.

[gorillanator]

I can see where you got that idea because on the card it says any card you control... and you control Saylind.

[Su_Nan]

Originally Posted by OPrime

SURE..if you had Two of her on your team.

but alas, you cannot...sigh.

Actually it can be done, but first your group has to allow Two Saylinds on opposing sides. Then go and mind shackle your opponents Saylind. And presto.

[Oprime]

Originally Posted by Su_Nan

Actually it can be done, but first your group has to allow Two Saylinds on opposing sides. Then go and mind shackle your opponents Saylind. And presto.

By George I think hes got it.

[sigmazero13]

And it would get even MORE interesting in 3+ player games where everyone has a Saylind, and Ne-Gok-Sa captures all the Saylinds

IDENTITY CRISIS! AIIEEE!

[OniX]

OH SNAP... I didnt realize Saylind was a chick...lol MY BAD.

[KeeperOfPeace]

LOL, I know how you feel. At first when my brother got her, I had to convince everyone that she was.

[Doc_Savage]

From the official website:

"Spear of Summoning
After moving and before attacking, choose any figure you control on the battlefield, then roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-8, nothing happens. If you roll a 9-20, move the chosen figure to any space adjacent to Saylind. If the summoned figure is engaged, the figure does not receive any leaving engagement attacks."

I don't think that it is clear in the text that you can't move her. However, if asked, I'm sure that the designers did not intend for her to move herself and I would rule no.


"Flying
When counting spaces for Saylind's movement, ignore elevations. Saylind may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Saylind starts to fly, if she is engaged she will take any leaving engagement attacks. "

If you read her flying it is clear she is female. If you don't, you could go either way....

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by Doc_Savage

From the official website:

"Spear of Summoning
After moving and before attacking, choose any figure you control on the battlefield, then roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-8, nothing happens. If you roll a 9-20, move the chosen figure to any space adjacent to Saylind. If the summoned figure is engaged, the figure does not receive any leaving engagement attacks."

I don't think that it is clear in the text that you can't move her. However, if asked, I'm sure that the designers did not intend for her to move herself and I would rule no.

I think its pretty clear, that it can't be done, sure she can target herself but then she can't move herself because she would have to be adjacent to herself. How do you move a figure and keep it adjacent to itself?

[CornPuff]

Alright, 2 pages of discussion. I shall now present my formal opinion.

I realize how ridiculous the whole thing is, and that it probably goes against the creator's original intention. But, The game is how they write it, not as they 'intend'.

Can Saylind summon herself? To find out, lets take a look at a similar card, Johnny Shotgun Sullivan.

Johnny's Shotgun blast special attack uses adjacency rules that are similar to Saylind.

Originally Posted by SHOTGUN BLAST SPECIAL ATTACK

Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by the Shotgun Blast Special Attack.

The relevant question is, when do we choose which figures are affected by the special attack? The official answer is that you choose which figures are affected before you attack. So, if you shoot an Legionnaire, and it dies, the shotgun blast still affects the figures that were adjacent to the targeted Legionnaire.

So, the adjacent figures are chosen, and remembered, before action begins. If they were chosen after the targetted figure rolled defense and died, then the other figures would no longer be adajacent ( because the targeted figure is sitting on his army card).

Now, back to Saylind:

The relevant question is, when do we choose which spaces the chosen figure can move to? Just like with Shotgun Sullivan, I say you determine the parameters before resolving the action. IE, you pick the figure and the destination before resolving the move (summon) action.

See the similarity? Its all about when you pick the parameters. Are the actions atomic, or do you do a little action, then pick more parameters?
In the Saylind case, I suspect you should choose all parameters (the 'chosen figure' and the target hex) and then execute(summon). Just like Sullivan chooses all affected figures, then executes.

Originally Posted by A lot of people

Saylind can't self summon, because once she is summoned, there are no adjacent spaces for saylind to move to. Saylind cant be adjacent to Saylind.

Yup, I agree with you guys, Saylind can't be summoned to a space that is adjacent to Saylind, but Saylind can be summoned to a space that was adjacent to Saylind. Just like Shotgun sullivan doesn't affect figures that are adjacent to his target, he affects figures that were adjacent to his target.

I say if Saylind can't summon herself there needs to be a change in the official rules, not just a clarification.

Originally Posted by netherspirit

it shouldn't work...

I agree nether, but I just can't help myself when it comes to rules loopholes.

Thanks for reading. If you got bored halfway through, at least you get this dancing banana :banana:

[netherspirit]

I think comparing it to Shotty Johnny doesn't really work in this case. Because technically the figures are all being affected at the same time, and you could choose to roll attack dice for one of the adjacent figures before shooting the targeted figure.

Plus it recognizes right away that "Okay I am shooting this guy, but I also have to shoot these other two guys."

I just don't think the comparison works. :P

[CornPuff]

Originally Posted by Heroscape.com FAQ

Who decides what order the adjacent figures get hit when Deathwalker uses is Explosion Special Attack?
The target always rolls defense first. Then the attacker chooses the order in which the other figures are hit.

They didn't have shotgun sullivan, but since the wording on both cards is the same, I have no reason to believe it works differently.