HeroScape is coming back!

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

DRAGON RIDER
If Mimring is in your army, and Raelin the Kyrie Warrior is unengaged and adjacent to Mimring, instead of moving Raelin the Kyrie Warrior normally, you may move Mimring 6 spaces. After moving Mimring, place Raelin the Kyrie Warrior adjacent to Mimring. Raelin the Kyrie Warrior may then attack normally.

That seems more verbose than it needs to be.

Instead of moving Raelin normally, if you control Mimring and he is adjacent to Raelin you may move Mimring 6 spaces. After moving Mimring, place Raelin adjacent to Mimring.

But in any case, I'm pretty sure what the designers wanted was a cool-looking rider on a cool-looking mount, so I doubt they would have wanted to make a third Raelin yet again just standing there holding a stick. (I'm guessing that's also why the new Shiori has a gimmick sculpt that feels like it's pulled from Heroclix; it's more about making a splash with unexpected sculpts than consistency with the existing game.)

[Blue Trails]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

I have to wonder if perhaps the AoA sculpt may not have originally been intended to depict Raelin, but rather some other, new, Kyrie character, then at some point got repurposed as Evil Raelin. And either nobody noticed, or nobody cared, that the wings were wrong for her character. Or, they intended to explain it in the bio but that intent got lost in the shuffle. It's a shame, because I would have liked a new version of Raelin that actually looked like Raelin. (And a new Shiori that wasn't retconned to be a quasi-wizard.)

Hey, I don't know if I can help you here, but my interpretation was always that Raelin and most of Jandar's other Kyrie units wore a sort of wing armor, which is also why her wings changed appearance somewhere between RotV to SotM. Structurally, Evil Raelin's wings are quite similar to Concan's, so we could assume that she just discarded the armor plating and dyed her feathers.

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Wait, that striped tiger with bat's ears is supposed to be a manticore? As in, body of a lion and head of a man? Okay, this sculpt is just multiple kinds of messed up.

They've had how many years now to get this all figured out? When a person has the kind of attachment to Heroscape where canon and lore and mythological awareness matter just as much as good gameplay, it's pretty hard to watch the storytelling side of the design triangle get crushed under the wheels like this. Good gravy, it's not that hard to get these things right if somebody cares to get it right.

For what it's worth, we learned from Grungebob during the HasLab campaign that Raelin's steed was an unreleased design from the original 'Scape run, and wings are a common feature in modern manticore imagery thanks to the influence of games like D&D. So, it looks "Scapey" enough for me to believe the manticore could have been conceptualized alongside some of the classic units—probably as something from Feylund, as the designers seemed to be willing to play more loosely with Greek myths for those characters.

I totally understand your frustration, though. I also care for consistency in Heroscape's storytelling, and I'm displeased by some of the decisions made by Renegade's team, too (erasing the context for the Pirate/Captain faction by omitting all mention of the Dawn Raider Syndicate from its units' bios when porting them from the original AoA project is particularly bothersome).

[Tmac2200]

I never noticed her wings being mechanical. Maybe thet aren't and she has some kind of wing armor on. It's about as plausible as flying human shaped beings, neither would work aerodynamically, but a cool liiking mini is a cool looking mini.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Blue Trails

Hey, I don't know if I can help you here, but my interpretation was always that Raelin and most of Jandar's other Kyrie units wore a sort of wing armor

Yeah, that might help actually. It would have improved the bio a lot to include something like this. New insight into these species is always a cool thing to get in a new set.

Originally Posted by Blue Trails

wings are a common feature in modern manticore imagery

I don't have any issue with the wings. But tiger+bat is so far from lion+human that it becomes a head-scratcher. This thing should've just been given a cool new Scapey name. (When I saw it, I thought, ooh I wonder what that new Valhallan creature is?) I don't understand why designers would want to paint themselves into a corner. In the future, if they want to design actual manticores, they either can't, or they have to call it something else and then we wonder why the things called manticores aren't, and the things not called manticores are. Nothing good comes from it.

Originally Posted by Blue Trails

I totally understand your frustration, though. I also care for consistency in Heroscape's storytelling, and I'm displeased by some of the decisions made by Renegade's team, too (erasing the context for the Pirate/Captain faction by omitting all mention of the Dawn Raider Syndicate from its units' bios when porting them from the original AoA project is particularly bothersome).

I didn't pay that much attention during the HasLab thing; some of the first information I saw really irritated me, like how they made a whole new hive-like insectoid clan instead of continuing to develop the classic Marro. So I'm just now learning (or re-learning?) things that others have known a long time. I'm starting to share your Dawn Raiders frustration because things don't make sense to me. I've already griped about Mr. Shortypants McMarro's bio/gameplay mismatches, and I literally couldn't tell if Bonny is supposed to be a pirate or not. It seems rather random, but not in the good way that the original game was a "random" mix of characters from different times and planets. This is more like the unexplained chaos of confusing design choices.

In general, this preorder gives me the feeling that they're in a hurry to get it all out there before they've finished figuring it out, or maybe figuring out how to present everything. Do they really need to start taking everyone's money five months before they're ready to ship? Holy crap, that kinda still sounds like a kickstarter model.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Do they really need to start taking everyone's money five months before they're ready to ship? Holy crap, that kinda still sounds like a kickstarter model.

Had the same thought. Why order (and get charged) now? Pre-orders are staying open thru the summer and Renegade has said there will be enough St Drakes for all the pre-orders. No reason not to wait till just before GenCon to order. I can take my time and save up the $$ instead of letting it sit on my CC.

[stay_golden_PONYBOY]

Any theories on the promo figure for October?

National Heroscape Day!
Renegade and your friendly local game store will celebrate National Heroscape Day in October 2024 with an all-new event kit and new promo mini!

Stay tuned for more info as we get closer to the event.

https://renegadegamestudios.com/hero...ed-play-casual

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by nyys

Had the same thought. Why order (and get charged) now? Pre-orders are staying open thru the summer and Renegade has said there will be enough St Drakes for all the pre-orders. No reason not to wait till just before GenCon to order. I can take my time and save up the $$ instead of letting it sit on my CC.

If it's a matter of saving up first then, of course, wait.

I appreciate how they laid everything out, right away, so we know pretty much exactly what we're getting. I have my qualms about a few things I'm seeing, but I'll know better when everything arrives on my front porch.

Hopefully, the response exceeds their expectations. I'm very curious to see what the June Wave 2 will look like. I was tempted to hold off ordering Wave 1 until June, but meh, I decided yesterday that for now, I'm all-in. It's the Common Squads that will be the real test of my self-restraint, fiscally speaking.

The one thing I'm definitely NOT doing is buying a bunch of unpainted masters just for the terrain. I'm waiting to see how this Terrain System pans out, first.

[My Darling Panzer]

Okay, I just now purchased the unpainted master set and battle box. I know much of what I will say has been dissected ad nauseum, but I thought I would add to the pile just because it’s Heroscape.

I originally decided against purchasing for the first several days. I have already stated I was not a fan of the AoA designs. I am a filthy casual, and I don’t do any other collectible tabletop games besides X-wing and Armada (which are both pretty much dead in terms of new official content but that’s another story), and what drew me to Heroscape as a kid was the accessibility and recognizability of the factions. Samurai, dragons, elves, vampires, knights, futuristic robots all coming to do battle.

When one thinks of a dragon, is the design of Xenithrax the first thing one thinks of? When one thinks of pirates, are the multi-arm, futuristic, armor-bearing pirates the first thing that comes to mind? I know that Heroscape wants to forge its own path, but, in straying from tropes, it is sidelining filthy casuals like me.

I am also not a fan of the paint jobs. They look too vibrant and multi-colored especially compared to original scape…not what I would typically expect to see on a war-torn battlefield of veteran warriors, so I may try to paint them myself. I also do not like the card designs. The shape is a welcome return to form, but my goodness the designs are a big step back from the original designs.

Overall, the few main draws are the tournament support (I may try to get into the competitive scene if something close by hosts), the promise of more content that I can pick and choose from and, of course, supporting Heroscape. The sets offered have some decent figures, designs and gameplay mechanics along with terrain, so I am still excited, but cautiously so.

['Scaper94]

Originally Posted by My Darling Panzer

...what drew me to Heroscape as a kid was the accessibility and recognizability of the factions. Samurai, dragons, elves, vampires, knights, futuristic robots all coming to do battle.

When one thinks of a dragon, is the design of Xenithrax the first thing one thinks of? When one thinks of pirates, are the multi-arm, futuristic, armor-bearing pirates the first thing that comes to mind?

This was a talking point I, too, expressed during the initial HasLab revival. In the RotV set from 2004, it's crystal clear what Heroscape is: Dragons fighting samurai fighting robots fighting not-Legolas fighting not-Matrix characters. Super simple and an easy hook to grab the attention of new (including casual) audiences.

That simplicity which is, I think, a strong core element of Heroscape's DNA is lacking from the overall design and presentation of the revival. Is it wrong? Not necessarily - as long as Renegade understands that these product design decisions impact both the barrier of entry and the de facto target audience. With AoA, the hook is no longer "Hey, it's a big dragon fighting samurai fighting robots! Cool!" but instead "Hey, it's a big dragon fighting... alien pirates? And fighting bipedal polar bears? Huh, that's interesting."

The topic of complexity creep has been brought up in the various online groups, specifically pertaining to Ewashia's four special powers and the concern that new unit designs will become more complex overall compared to original units. There's certainly at least some validity to the concern, especially when zooming out and examining the current AoA presentation (more complex) compared to the original RotV presentation (more simple).

[Nukatha]

Originally Posted by My Darling Panzer

When one thinks of a dragon, is the design of Xenithrax the first thing one thinks of

Your other points are good, but Braxas has butterfly wings.

[IAmBatman]

I call this “toybox archetypes.” I believe dysole refers to it as more Hollywood archetypes, but same concept. Instantly recognizable 2-dimensional character types. AoA more mashes various archetypes together into single units and muddies their theme as a result.

[nyys]

Considering the price tag, I don't think young kids are the target anymore. I imagine few non-gamer parents will fork over $225 for the painted master set (no kid is going to want the gray stuff when they see painted figs on the box front).