HoME General Discussion Thread

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

For most people using only LotR characters would mean setting aside any other units in their collection, including their favorites. So for those people it isn't worth it to use LotR characters if they can't also use all their other characters. FWIW, that's one of the big reasons I've never gotten into Star Wars 'Scape.

Verrry interesting. Looks like StarWars 'Scape (HoSS) may be moving in this exact direction: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=45384. A heck of a coincidence. Did anyone say anything over there?

[caps]

Originally Posted by Xorlof

Verrry interesting. Looks like StarWars 'Scape (HoSS) may be moving in this exact direction: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=45384. A heck of a coincidence. Did anyone say anything over there?

*cough*

Mebbe.

[caps]

I'd like to hear some more feedback from the rest of the group, particularly infectedsloth and orcelfarmyone.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

*cough*

Mebbe.

Project Pokemon would be pretty easy to do:
1) Select a general
2) Change the class to Heroscape classes
3) Change the names of renamed "duplicate" powers so that they match the names of exactly the same Heroscape powers (if any)

The Pokemon have all been playtested against classic Scape, and there are no weird synergies. Weakness/Resistance/No Effect are ignored when battling classic Scape (and during playtesting anyways).

But I really can't believe many people would want to play Pikachu on the same team as Sgt. Drake.

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by White Knight

But I really can't believe many people would want to play Pikachu on the same team as Sgt. Drake.

This is what got me into Heroscape. I loved the idea of fighting Batman vs Grom Hellscream vs Dinosaurs vs Terminator. Most of my games where I don't playtest involve pokemon vs Lord of the Rings vs Classic vs Superheroes. Then again, maybe I'm crazy.

[caps]

Originally Posted by White Knight

Project Pokemon would be pretty easy to do:
1) Select a general
2) Change the class to Heroscape classes
3) Change the names of renamed "duplicate" powers so that they match the names of exactly the same Heroscape powers (if any)

The Pokemon have all been playtested against classic Scape, and there are no weird synergies. Weakness/Resistance/No Effect are ignored when battling classic Scape (and during playtesting anyways).

But I really can't believe many people would want to play Pikachu on the same team as Sgt. Drake.

If you want to do it, then have at it White Knight. I have zero interest in Pokemon (unlike Star Wars), but I'm sure any Pokemon fans on the site (like AV) that want to more seamlessly integrate the pokemon with Classic 'Scape would appreciate it.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I'd like to hear some more feedback from the rest of the group regarding the ERB (and also the generals issue), particularly infectedsloth and orcelfarmyone.

Any additional thoughts, responses? Or have we all said our peace?

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

*cough*

Mebbe.

Awesome.

[Xorlof]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Anyway, as I said earlier, I'd like to hear some more feedback from the rest of the group regarding the ERB (and also the generals issue), particularly infectedsloth and orcelfarmyone.

Any additional thoughts, responses? Or have we all said our peace?

Pretty sure earlier in the thread orcelfarmyone mentioned he was in favor of an ERB (at least in principle).

I'll put a draft of my proposal out Wednesday morning and hope to get everyone's help in drafting the details, particularly in the area of the scope of the ERB's, it's authority, and the checks and balances available. As mentioned previously I hope to put it to a vote starting sometime Wednesday (probably evening).

[White Knight]

Generals
I've been wavering back and forth about whether to use the classic generals or use our own. I'm probably overthinking this as well, but I've been trying to convince myself more than anyone else. So please bear with me, or just skip to the end.

Thoughts on HoME unique cards
Originally, I just thought we would do like HoSS and Marvel and have our own groups and factions. For the Lord of the Rings, there might be elves, dwarves, Men of Gondor and Rohan, followers of Sauron. As we moved to the Silmarillion, we would have to add new factions (as it wouldn't make sense for the Numenoreans to follow the men of Gondor or any of the other LotR armies). I was envisioning a separate game--still playable with classic Scape, but without the Scape backstory.

I still like that idea, and I'm not convinced that using classic generals will increase the use of our cards. I like HoSS and Project Pokemon as stand alone games--and I'd rather play HoSS with Star Wars scenarios than mixed with classic (unless the Jedis are fighting a swarm of Marro on a rim planet). And I also like having unique card designs, and having the freedom to design the factions in a way that best fits with Middle Earth.

Also, I like how HoSS has scenarios based upon Star Wars battles (instead of basing their battles in Valhalla).


Thoughts on Classic generals
However, the general leaning in this thread seems to be towards classic generals. So I've been trying to convince myself that we can make HoME work in Valhalla.

At first I tried to convince myself to ignore the backstory--it's just a game. But I talked with my older son, and he likes the idea of having a compatible backstory to weave the HoME characters into Valhalla.

Some thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head:
- we can't radically change the Valhalla story and expect the rest of the community to accept it. That means we can't add new generals. We also can't advance the storyline much beyond the Shadow Cavern Campaign.
- Sauron served under the Numenorean men for a season (although he became a chief advisor and secretly plotted against them the whole time)
- Morgoth was weakened after being thrown into the Void
- we don't know how powerful the archkyrie really are--and, for that matter, we don't know how powerful the valkyrie generals really are (although we know that they rely on their followers to fight most of their battles, just as Sauron and Morgoth relied upon their followers to fight most of their battles)

So I've been thinking about how we could weave a backstory that I could accept and the community at large could accept

Suggested Backstory
(Note: I'll just sum up these points for now)

- in the Shadow Cavern scenario, we saw the birth of a new Valkyrie (when the kyrie Valkrill found the wellspring in the shadow cavern)

- years before the Shadow Cavern took place, Morgoth had found his way from the Void to Valhalla
- Morgoth was not yet powerful enough to take a physical body
- as a being of shadow, Morgoth learned of the wellsprings
- Morgoth realized the valkyrie and the wellsprings could be used to take his revenge on Arda
- Morgoth found the kyrie Valkrill and influenced him to evil
- Morgoth summoned Sauron to Valhalla
- Sauron took the beautiful form he had assumed in Numenor (Annatar) and joined with Vydar
- Annatar became one of Vydar's chief advisors
- Annatar (taking the name Sauron) joined forces with Utgar as a spy for Vydar
- Annatar convinced Vydar to join forces with Utgar (and with Valkrill)
- with his new power, Valkrill formed a body for Morgoth and made Morgoth his chief lieutenant

So Valkrill was corrupted by Morgoth, and Vydar was corrupted through Sauron (just like Sauron corrupted the Numenoreans).


My vote for generals
I'm willing to accept whatever the majority wants, so I'd prefer to abstain. But if I have to vote, I'll vote for classic generals (with the included backstory).


ERB
I'm in favor of a very limited ERB. I think all major decisions should be decided by majority of all HoME members, while over-riding a previous vote should require 2/3 of all HoME members.

The ERB's purpose should be:
- to control the conversation and keep it moving in the right direction
- to keep things organized
- to own the threads so that they will be continually updated (one of our Project Pokemon members started the playtesting thread and then dropped out--forcing us to start a new thread)
- to settle disputes

[caps]

I really appreciate your thoughts here White Knight. Here are some of my thoughts in response

-we can still make LotR-themed scenarios. People can choose for themselves whether or not they want to use all-LotR characters or mix them with Valhalla characters. Some people will really enjoy the latter. Heroscape is all about imagination--there are so many unlikely combinations that are so much fun.
-I like the direction your backstory is headed, although I'm a little reluctant to insert "our" characters as causes for actions taken by the Valkyrie. I'm also not completely certain that Utgar and Valkrill are actually allied, technically. Are they? Nonetheless, we do need at least a thread of backstory and you're headed in the right direction.
-We obviously have a different, but strongly overlapping view of what the ERB should do. But that's a good thing. I would say that my vision for the ERB encompasses everything you describe, and I've already listed the other things I think the ERB should do, although I will happily relist them if someone asks.

I like this discourse. I'd really like to hear some more thoughtful commentary from infectedsloth, orcelfarmyone, and the rest of our participants.

[caps]

I would like Xorlof, White Knight, and anyone else who's interested to type up a case study for how the ERB would go about making and implementing decisions. I'll do one too, after chapel. I'm thinking "How the ERB decides on a Mission Statement" or something like that.

[Joseph Sweeney]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

-We obviously have a different, but strongly overlapping view of what the ERB should do. But that's a good thing. I would say that my vision for the ERB encompasses everything you describe, and I've already listed the other things I think the ERB should do, although I will happily relist them if someone asks.
.

My thoughts on the ERB is that, we will elect people we all trust, and believe to be fair, and honest. So, I see nothing wrong with granting the ERB full power, because, we believe they wouldn't abuse their power. However, this is also a group project, and there are many things of which should be decided as a group. Basically, my analyses, is that while the ERB may do as they like, most things should be decided as a group, only decisions that are really important, or about the future of the project (such as the one we are discussing now) should be decided by the ERB, along with keeping every thing moving, and keeping the troops inline.