The Book of Poison Ivy (I)

[Karat]

Yup, you have to unentangle that figure to be able to do so again.

[Rudiger]

okie dokie then, so either they have to move out of range or poison ivy has to move. fair enough.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by Rudiger

okie dokie then, so either they have to move out of range or poison ivy has to move. fair enough.

Either that, or you take her out.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by mrcrimson

When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto or over ... Figures can never move through or over any figure affected by Entangling Vines.

So am I right in understanding that a flying figure sailing 150 levels above Poison Ivy can be dragged to the ground by vines? And that once this happens, that no other figures can fly 150 levels over the top of that entangled figure?

And what exactly is the duration of this effect? How long is a figure "affected by" Entangling Vines? Since he is free to leave the next time he moves, I guess I'm not at all understanding the prohibition against other figures moving over him.

I'll make the assumption that it lasts until the figure moves again, and based on that assumption make the following suggestion for defining it on the card:

When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto or over a grass or swamp space or a space adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece, and the space moved onto or over is within 2 spaces of Poison Ivy, that figure must end its move there and is considered Entangled until it moves again. Figures can never move through or over any Entangled figure.

Note that I also tightened up the earlier part of the power to avoid adding length overall.

Originally Posted by mrcrimson

PHEROMONE SEDUCTION 17
Before moving, you may choose a Unique Hero figure within 2 spaces of Poison Ivy. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 17 or higher, take control of that figure’s Army Card and remove any Order Marker on that Army Card. If Poison Ivy is destroyed, control of all Pheromone Seduced Hero figures returns to the player who controlled them Hero figures before they became Pheromone Seduced.

I recommend you delete the extraneous "hero" references. If you don't need to repeat "unique" (which clearly you don't), then you don't need to repeat "hero" either for the same reason. It just adds length and a bit of extra awkwardness to the flow.

Originally Posted by the PDFs

PLANT ANIMATION 12
After moving and instead of attacking, roll the 20-sided die for all opponent's opponents' figures within 2 spaces of an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece that is within 6 spaces of Poison Ivy, one at a time. If you roll 12 or higher, the figure receives one wound.

The plural is correct in the SP and the Index, but it is wrong (singular) on the cards.

EDIT: I also just realized it's not clear whether Plant Animation applies to all plants within 6 spaces or just one. Here are suggested clarifications either way:

After moving and instead of attacking, roll the 20-sided die for all opponents’ figures within 2 spaces of any Evergreen Trees and Jungle Pieces that are within 6 spaces of Poison Ivy, one at a time. If you roll 12 or higher, the figure receives one wound.

After moving and instead of attacking, choose an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece that is within 6 spaces of Poison Ivy and roll the 20-sided die for all opponents’ figures within 2 spaces of that Tree or Piece, one at a time. If you roll 12 or higher, the figure receives one wound.

Finally, the "instead of attacking" on this power sounds mandatory rather than optional. If the latter was intended, I heartily recommend adding a strategic you may.

[Just_a_Bill]

Okay, so I went back a bit and found these:

Originally Posted by Karat

Yup, you have to unentangle that figure to be able to do so again.

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

Entangling Vines only ends movement phase of its turn.

Originally Posted by SirGalahad

The affected figure is still affected even several rounds later, as long as it still meets the criteria (type or location of space, within 2 spaces of Ivy).

Those are helpful (though also apparently in a bit of conflict with each other), but the army card doesn't define any kind of "entangled" condition for that figure. All it says is that the special power stops your move — just like stepping into water. There is nothing special about being on a vine-capable space; only moving onto/over it. It's a discrete action, not a lingering condition.

Prior to finding the quotes above, and after posting my earlier post where I theorized that it was supposed to last until you move that figure, it struck me that I was being an idiot and the real purpose of the no-move-through, no-fly-over rule was to prevent squads from letting a later member slide through a space that an earlier member just got stuck in moments before; and that I was assuming too much by dreaming up a whole "entanglement duration" concept (beyond the current army card's move phase) that doesn't exist on Poison Ivy's card.

Once I considered the squad angle, I realized that was the interpretation that best fit the text as written (without a designer to pop out and say what the intent was). So I definitely think if you want some kind of duration like "until it moves again," the card needs to say it. And if Poison Ivy moving away is also supposed to release the vines, then that would need to be spelled out as well: "is considered Entangled until it moves again or Poison Ivy is no longer within 2 spaces" or somesuch.

Or perhaps it's better to just repeat the conditions, like so many other cards do. Does this accurately capture the design intent?

ENTANGLING VINES
When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto or over a grass or swamp space or a space adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece, and the space moved onto or over is within 2 spaces of Poison Ivy, that figure must end its move there. Figures can never move through or over any figure that is within 2 spaces of Poison Ivy and on a grass or swamp space or a space adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece.

Another, more consise approach would be to define the spaces in some way so the complex conditions do not have to all be repeated. Does this accurately capture the design intent?

ENTANGLING VINES
All grass spaces, swamp spaces, and spaces that are adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece are considered Entangling while they are within 2 spaces of Poison Ivy. When an opponent's small or medium figure moves onto or over an Entangling space, that figure must end its move there. Figures can never move through or over any figure on an Entangling space.

This of course would mean that Ivy could sneak up on a figure that was not already entangled, and make him entangled by her sheer presence. This would be a change from the card as written, which only entangles figures when they move toward Ivy.

[Just_a_Bill]

Sorry for the triple post, but I just realized another issue. I see now that the restriction against moving over/through an entangled figure is to prevent a situation where a figure is required to stop on the space but cannot. However, these situations already occur anyway.

For example, if two trees are next to each other, then each of those trees is a space that forces figures to stop there if they fly over it, but of course they cannot because of the tree. In other words, anything that is not a figure but prevents a figure from occupying its space becomes a problem if it is adjacent to a tree or jungle piece. Other examples would include vehicle destructible objects, rock outcrops, the Marro Hive, and even spaces that are otherwise "open" but still not occupiable by certain figures, such as a space containing the Glyph of Kelda, or one with restricted clearance due to something like Grimnak's tail, the doorway to a Fortress, or even just a simple overhang.

I'm not at home right now to check, but I bet some of my flying Clix on stands, like Falcon and maybe Storm, won't always fit under the canopy of a jungle palm. I'm almost certain the kite-shaped Plastic Man and/or my unmodified Nightcrawler will have trouble next to the largest evergreen tree. So there are situations where the inability to obey Entangling Vines has nothing to do with whether or not a figure is already in an otherwise "open" space.

Another problem would be double-base figures if there is ever a Medium double-baser. Might not be terribly likely, but there's no value in making that a future design constraint. (And the Shrinking Ray Gun glyph comes close enough to making it happen to serve as a warning. The longer a project lasts, the more the design space expands to places you never expected it to reach.)

A clean solution to all of these scenarios (and any future ones) is to simply redefine the prohibition so it directly states what it is trying to prevent:

ENTANGLING VINES
All grass spaces, swamp spaces, and spaces adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece are considered Entangling when Poison Ivy is within 2 spaces. When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto, through, or over an Entangling space, that figure must end its move there. Figures that should end their move on an Entangling space may not move onto, through, or over that space if they are not able to stop there.

And looking at this now makes me wonder: Why does the original design prevent tiny, large, and huge figures from flying over the top of an entangled figure? Why does it disallow flyovers/walkthoughs by figures that are friendly to Poison Ivy? Unless I misunderstand the power, it seems like the original restriction is just an approximation of what you actually want, doesn't work in all the scenarios it needs to, and is catching some dolphins in the tuna net.

[IAmBatman]

Plant Animation is definitely supposed to work for all the trees.

I'll let others work to sort out Entangling Vines with you.

[Arkham]

In the synergies part of the OP:

C3G:
As a figure with the Insane personlity, Poison Ivy may allow Harley Quinn to use her Insane Devotion special power to take a turn after him.

Should be her.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

In the synergies part of the OP:

Should be her.

Got it, Thanks.

[Sporx]

Proofreading: SP needs an additional "s" to "Order MarkerS" in Pheromone Seduction 17.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Sporx

Proofreading: SP needs an additional "s" to "Order MarkerS" in Pheromone Seduction 17.

Yep. I corrected that after you pointed it out in the Poker thread. Thanks.

[IAmBatman]

This thread bump makes me miss @Just_a_Bill