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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books. |
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#97
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
Looking like it has been fairly solid.
This going to be really hard to quantify. We have to weigh its potential good vs. it failing or never getting cast. The win-loss is fairly meaningless here to me. All that really matters is what affect the spell is actually having in the grand scheme of battle. Maybe we should call in some outside analysis for additional perspective? |
#98
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
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5 Attack reduced to 2 against 5 Defense seems to be the most common attack that Mesmerize is used in. In those cases, it goes from a 60% chance at a wound to under 20%. More often than not, it's preventing the attack. Also, I think it's offset (more than, even) by the added value of saving OMs, blocking additional wounds, or preventing attacks. It also adds value to Mordo by allowing him to use his other abilities, and it's great for Selene as blocking wounds gives her more attack dice and movement. In at least a couple of my games, the spell was the likely difference maker, without, it's an easy loss. Quote:
To get a sense of how the spell is performing though, let's look at the data:
".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above Cambridge if sometimes in its box of sky lavender and cornerless, the moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy" |
#99
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
I trust dok's judgement also but it may be easier for some to listen if there is more than one voice.
You know, second opinion and all that. |
#100
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
So what's happening here? I ask because this discussion doesn't appear to be going anywhere, and I really don't want this to be held up any longer with nothing happening.
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#101
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
Is it actually possible to cost this spell appropriately for it to be of general use to spellcasters outside Mordo without being priced so low as to be an automatic inclusion with them? Mesmerize only really does the one thing, and it's allow an MD figure to potentially survive a bit longer than they normally would. This is useful to all MD figures in all matchups, outside unusual scenario play, so if the price is right there is never an army you wouldn't use it in.
The stated goal of pricing this spell so far has been to make it draftable for spellcasters other than Mordo. I don't think, however, that it's possible to price it at draftable level without also pricing it at necessity level (which is to say, without pricing it at the level dok was mentioning where you would always be running a strictly worse army by not including it). I think instead we should acknowledge that there aren't enough variables to fiddle with here and just price it at a level where it's useful for Mordo and as a counterdraft against powers that trigger on a successful attack. Trying to broaden it any further risks making it ubiquitous, which I think would be a far worse result than it being slightly overcosted. |
#102
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
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#103
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
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As I understand it, figuring out the spell's cost is a matter of figuring out roughly what the chances are of it buying a spellcaster an extra point of life, and then pricing it so that it's not always a no-brainer pick. Is, say, a 70% chance of giving Dr. Fate 1 extra life worth 30 points? What about Enchantress? Again, I don't actually know, but I feel like the direction and methodology needs to be clarified here. We have too much data to be simply going off what people felt was right. |
#104
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
Quote:
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#105
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
Okay, this... doesn't seem to be going anywhere, and the longer this drags on, the longer I'm tied up with it and unable to do anything else. Therefore, may I ask that:
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#106
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
Hmm... maybe we need a poll here? See what costs everybody thinks is best based on the results.
Personally, 30-35 seems good to me. C3G: Taking Superheroes to a Whole New Level! C3V: The Legacy of Classic 'Scape! Viegon & Family's Classic Customs, Maps, and Battlefield Videos. Enjoy App Games? Try A Day in the Life of Atlas! |
#107
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
My personal vote would be 25, but that seems unlikely, and I'm okay with 30-35 to move it forwards, so put me down for 30.
And @Viegon - thank you for hopefully helping to get this moving. Last edited by Lazy Orang; May 21st, 2017 at 11:44 AM. |
#108
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Re: The Spellbook of Mesmerize - Vote for Final Editing
I think of stayed my opinion here pretty clearly. I'm not going to throw away statistical data in favor of gut feeling. Especially not when my own experience makes me think that 15-20 is too low. 30 seems like an absolute minimum here. I'd feel much better with 35, and 40 wouldn't be a stretch.
".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above Cambridge if sometimes in its box of sky lavender and cornerless, the moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy" |
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