Frost Giant of Morh pre release discussion

[jahosaphat]

[QUOTE=ollie

Originally Posted by ollie

Forget technology, let's try some plain text...

['Scaper94]

I want 3. This guy will make a great front line. Better yet, use the rats first, then send in Jack Frost here for a second strike.

[Chardar]

Here's a better picture of the card.

[Margloth]

Interesting... perhaps the first uncommon who is truly effective in multiples... I think 3 or so of these guys could play well with a solid ranged unit (Krav). Simple strategy... you don't have to think much when multiple scenarios give your unit a boost and his powers keep your opponent scrambling.

Still, often only 1 attack per OM.

[Dad_Scaper]

I like him as an anti-squadscape figure. He should counter, or at least challenge, both melee and ranged squads with his bonuses to move & dying swipe.

That said, I still don't think there's any way he can take out his point's worth of stingers/10th/knights etc.

Heroes will often have the special attacks that will protect themselves from Dying Swipe, which would otherwise be deadly. He *should* wipe the floor with heroes like RotV Drake and Braxas, who do not have relevant special attacks.

[spiteofthedice]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

Heroes will often have the special attacks that will protect themselves from Dying Swipe, which would otherwise be deadly.

But don't forget: Anybody can give him the deathblow and he can still inflict wounds on anyone adjacent to him. So unless you only attack him with SAs, he's still going to get to use it much of the time.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by spiteofthedice

But don't forget: Anybody can give him the deathblow and he can still inflict wounds on anyone adjacent to him. So unless you only attack him with SAs, he's still going to get to use it much of the time.

I read the card to say only the *killing* blow has to be a normal attack to trigger Dying Swipe. So if he's wounded by whatever & staggers up to Kaemon Awa, the samurai hero can polish him off with a coule Quick Releases & he's finished.

I'm just saying I think his powers will tend to hurt squads more than heroes, which is a good thing. In my book.

I'll be glad to have one in my collection. I could be wrong, but I (right now, with two margaritas in me) doubt that he will see much competitive play. He'll go in the Mimring class of units that counter squads a little bit and justify an occasional appearance on the table.

KidScaper & I will have fun with him every now and then and if I get an extra to give to one of his 'Scape playing buddies that's enough for me to justify the purchase.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

Honestly, this has been being discussed for weeks.

True, but I must admit I was surprised to see the big single-hex base on this figure. I expected it for Moltenclaw, MotH, the Ice Troll, and the Ogre, but not this guy. I just thought he was a little too Larry Craig to fit on a single-hex base, and I thought it would be a bit weird to have a single-spaced huge figure. Actually, it is weird to have a single-spaced huge figure. Not wrong, just weird. I'll get used to it.

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

I like him as an anti-squadscape figure. He should counter, or at least challenge, both melee and ranged squads with his bonuses to move & dying swipe.

That said, I still don't think there's any way he can take out his point's worth of stingers/10th/knights etc.

Heroes will often have the special attacks that will protect themselves from Dying Swipe, which would otherwise be deadly. He *should* wipe the floor with heroes like RotV Drake and Braxas, who do not have relevant special attacks.

Yeah, I definitely see him as more of an anti-hero figure than an anti-squad figure. Dying swipe is nice if he's mobbed with a bunch of squaddies, but it's nicer if he's next to some high-point heroes... especially high defense, low life, high-point heroes.

This isn't a metagame-shattering figure, but it's certainly competitive.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by dok

True, but I must admit I was surprised to see the big single-hex base on this figure. I expected it for Moltenclaw, MotH, the Ice Troll, and the Ogre, but not this guy. I just thought he was a little too Larry Craig to fit on a single-hex base, and I thought it would be a bit weird to have a single-spaced huge figure. Actually, it is weird to have a single-spaced huge figure. Not wrong, just weird. I'll get used to it.

It's interesting, it's definitely *not* in the Frost Giant's best interest to be 1 hex. He is one of a few figs that would *prefer* the 2d hex. This seems to me to be a design feature, and so be it.

Originally Posted by dok

Yeah, I definitely see him as more of an anti-hero figure than an anti-squad figure. Dying swipe is nice if he's mobbed with a bunch of squaddies, but it's nicer if he's next to some high-point heroes... especially high defense, low life, high-point heroes.

This isn't a metagame-shattering figure, but it's certainly competitive.

He will be more dangerous against normal attacking heroes and squads, which also tend to be normal attacking. Many heroes will have special attacks available to protect themselves from dying swipe, though they will still have to contend with Indomitable. I suppose it would have been more accurate to say that the Frost Giant will be most effective against normal attackers, be they range (indomitable) or melee (dying swipe), but as dok says, not metagame shattering.

On the *tournament scene*, which is not the only place units should be judged, if he wipes out a whole squad of knights before he goes down he has done half his points worth of damage.

[dok]

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

It's interesting, it's definitely *not* in the Frost Giant's best interest to be 1 hex. He is one of a few figs that would *prefer* the 2d hex.

I understand what you're saying, but I mostly disagree. While getting a bunch of figures hit with dying swipe is nice, that only happens once. Tactically, I think the maneuverability of the single-hex base is more valuable, particularly for a melee figure that lacks a reliable way to clear rats or attack multiple adjacent figures.

Originally Posted by DaddyScaper

This seems to me to be a design feature, and so be it.

I agree in some sense - I suspect they knew he was single-spaced when they designed his powers, so he was balanced with that in mind. That said, I think the way it's going to be in subsequent D&D waves is that all figures that can be on a single-hexer, will be.

And I don't really have a problem with that - I like having a mix of single and double-hexers, and I really like the gameplay effects of large double-hexers. It does bug me a little that very similar figures have different gameplay because of the single-hex/double-hex difference, but it's not a big deal for me.

[jahosaphat]

Does frenzy +1 work on battle frenzy?

[Robotech Master]

Originally Posted by jahosaphat

Does frenzy +1 work on battle frenzy?

My guess is no; under the same consideration that a half-elf doesn't count as an elf, I think powers reference each other by very specific name.

Besides which, its not just the name; they are different powers, with Frenzy allowing you to move as well as attack, so I'd say battle frenzy isn't enhanced by Mittens.

I read the card to say only the *killing* blow has to be a normal attack to trigger Dying Swipe. So if he's wounded by whatever & staggers up to Kaemon Awa, the samurai hero can polish him off with a coule Quick Releases & he's finished.

I'm just saying I think his powers will tend to hurt squads more than heroes, which is a good thing. In my book.

I'll be glad to have one in my collection. I could be wrong, but I (right now, with two margaritas in me) doubt that he will see much competitive play. He'll go in the Mimring class of units that counter squads a little bit and justify an occasional appearance on the table.

KidScaper & I will have fun with him every now and then and if I get an extra to give to one of his 'Scape playing buddies that's enough for me to justify the purchase.

Correct, he needs to be *destroyed* by a normal attack to use Dying Swipe. If his last wound is done in by a special attack, he doesn't get to use it, regardless of how many enemies are adjacent to him and regardless of how many normal attacks he was wounded by along the way.

Its not meant to be something you'll get to use all the time; its something designed to get your opponent thinking/worrying/changing their approach. A Heavy Grut or Knight army will be more hesitant to just send 3-4 melee squad figures in to finish a Frost Giant off because of the threat dying swipe has.