Best 90 point hero?

[Darkmage7a]

Time to compare all heroes at a given point cost are you up to it? This is not the normal unit debate and therefore not the normal criteria. Also I think its fair to say that most any comments regarding the feral troll are theoryscape.

Atlaga
Chardris
Crixus
Kiova
Ne-Gok-Sa
Parmenio
Retiarus
Feral Troll
Sir Hawthorne
Warden 816

Who is the best for these categories:

1. Best in Survivability

2. Best in Support

3. Best in Versatility

4. Best in Point Bargain

5. Best in Tournament Setting

6. Best in Dungeon Setting

[killercactus]

1. Best in Survivability - Ne-Gok-Sa

2. Best in Support - Atlaga

3. Best in Versatility - Crixus

4. Best in Point Bargain - Hawthorne

5. Best in Tournament Setting - Atlaga

6. Best in Dungeon Setting - Feral Troll

[gorthan313]

Crixus ALL THE WAY!

[Commander GD]

I voted for Crixus, here is my analysis:

1. Survivability: Crixus is by far the best survivor here. With one shield defense and 5 life, he is hard to kill!


2. Support: Warden 816, Kiova, and Parmineo would be optimal choices here, though figures like Hawthorne, Retiarius, and Crixus have bonding with some killer squads!

3. Versatility: All of the figures here are hero killers with the exception of Hawthorne. After him it's an all way tie in my opinion.

4. Point Bargin: I find Crixus can kill his point value, though so can Hawthorne. I have yet to try the feral troll, but it doesn't appear to be able to always kill 90 points worth.

5. Tournement: I have never played in a tournement before, but from what I have heard, it is very squad heavy. This would lean towards Hawthorne, but the backstab power makes him a risky choice in a competetive game. After that, I would pick Crixus and the Gladiators.

6. Dungeon: Like before, Hawthrone would be a very good choice, especially agianst the ferral troll, but his backstab throws him off balance.
After that it really just depends on who you are facing.

[Creationist]

1. Best in Survivability- NGS

2. Best in Support- Atlaga

3. Best in Versatility- Warden 816

4. Best in Point Bargain- Atlaga

5. Best in Tournament Setting- Atlaga

6. Best in Dungeon Setting- Crixius

[spiteofthedice]

Survivability: Got to give it to NGS. The boy is a tank. We know this to be true. Crixus is a close second, but NGS's Defense often covers the entire Attack roll.

Support: Atlaga Atlaga. I said it twice for emphasis. I mean, he doesn't just boost some of the kyrie. He boosts all of them. Atlaga Atlaga.

Versatility: I'm pretty sure One Shield Defense actually wins this category. And since Crixus happens to be the figure in this bunch that has OSD, he gets the vote.

Points: Um . . . Eldgrim. He's cheaper than all of them.

Tournament: I would think Crixus would be the most dependable. OSD is a universal save and Crixus stats can put some serious hurt on just about anybody with his 5A. Go Gladiator.

Dungeon: Troll, because he should get a vote for something.



That's just my personal opinion, however, and what do I know?

[Vilsara]

Since Atlaga is the only unit here in my top ten list of favorites, I'm biased, but for a reason.

I voted for him, but I know that he can't win EVERY category...

1. Best in Survivability
Depending on your viewpoint, either Crixus or Hawthorne. There's the obvious One Shield defense that can keep Crixus alive for quite a while, but 6 Life with 4 defense isn't too bad either in a 1 on 1 brawl. Offensively, however, Crixus outshines Hawthorne, even factoring in Blind Rage, which means that his stalling will get you more hits.

Ne-Gok-Sa is more the dark horse for me, since he has a great life/defense at 5/6 but not enough offensive heat (and a longshot ability) to use in a stall situation.

2. Best in Support
...Retarius or Atlaga. Fewer people use Retarius than Crixus, but the occasional Net Trip is as good a "support" as you can give to the other two order markers when you're rolling on a good day. Imagine how much more deadly the Steamroller is when they get a free turn to advance! Atlaga does have range AND flying, however, which makes him the easiest to climb hills and hold them sufficiently. Even without a hill, flying and 5 Move/Range means he has a constant threat range of 10, regardless of terrain. Now, in "literal" support, he also gives a movement boost to ALL Kyrie. Absolutely perfect.

One COULD argue that Chadris is great support to his Elf Wizard clan (and really, who would use him anywhere else?) since almost every elf in that group receives a benefit of sorts from being adjacent to others, which means clumping them lets Chadris give boosts to all his fellow elves.

3. Best in Versatility
I think I could say Atlaga here. He can fit into virtually every army build fairly well, especially if you're in need of range. Flying means that even at 5 move he can chug his way through any hex unhindered. Medium-high attack at medium range is fairly nice, if you factor in height (and how easy it is to get there with wings). On a map with high points, Atlaga will almost always be there.

4. Best in Point Bargain
I'll throw a curveball here and say Ne-Gok-Sa. Mindshackle doesn't exactly make 90 a "bargain," but if you've already tied up loose ends in your draft and have 90 points, It might behoove you to try him out. He certainly can't hurt your strategy if you bring him out mid game and try to do damage/brainwash a few stragglers.

5. Best in Tournament Setting
Atlaga, Crixus. Maybe both in the same army. Both have those special qualities that make them stand out in terms of overall power and usefullness, and both could easily hold their own and kill their points worth in a competitive game.

6. Best in Dungeon Setting
Hmmmm. I've never really encountered the dungeon style of gameplay as I'm only doing standard games until the 4th so I can learn more about the "official" dungeon game. However, assuming that all wounds are healed between maps, Crixus would probably be the last figure standing in every campaign. Since each map contains a smaller encounter than your typical 500 point armies, Crixus will rarely be injured past 3 wounds.

So, in my game, Kiova, Parmenio, Feral Troll, and the Warden didn't really get any votes. Sorry, guys.

My results:
Atlaga: 3
Crixus: 3
Ne-Gok-Sa: 1.5
Retarius: 1
Hawthorne: 1
Chadris: .5

Atlaga and Crixus tie overall, but I'm picking favorites, so Atlaga takes the cake for this one.

[airdroppers]

I have seen Ne-Gok-Sa survive in a lot of battles. 5 life 6 defense is not easy to kill. Crix seems like he would survive too.

Parmenio supports other units quiet well and I don't think anyone has brought him up.

Warden 815 is really versatile. he can shoot you, come up to you and attack with more dice and he provides guards with one extra movement. But then again, Atlaga is versatile too with his range, synergy with Kyrie's and his special ability.

I don't play tournaments and I haven't played any dungeon scenarios. Ne-Gok-Sa and Atlaga are the best point bargain considering both their special abilities. That is if your roll is lucky enough.

[Yodaking]

First I have to say that I like this formatt much better. Comparing and discussing figures of the same point value is much more benificial IMO.

Now here is my take:

1. Best in Survivability

1. NGS - 6 Def & 5 Life is clearly the best
2. Crixus - 5 life, 3/potential 4 DEF, & OSD all make for a good combo, although for some reason I roll no sheilds quite often whenever I have OSD so it does not seem to help me as much as others.
3. Sir Hawthorne - With 4 Def and 6 life he deserves to be mentioned.

2. Best in Support

1. Atgala - Boosting the movement of all Kyrie with no restrictions is awesome. With so many 4 movemnet Kyrie squads, this is huge.
2. Warden 816 - Also boosts movement, just for gaurds instead of kyrie. Right now their are more good Kyrie squads then their are of good squads of gaurds though.
3. Chardris - Needs to be mentioned in this category for when building an all elf wizard army. Not a support guy in the traditional sence but he is a key addition to the elf wizard block and thus supports the elf wizard group quite well with his potental for a ranged special attack of 5.

3. Best in Versatility

1. Atgala - With flying, a ranged attack, & potential for a 1-shot kill of any hero, this guy can contribute to any army.
2. Sir Hawthorne - With 4 ATT/4 DEF/6 Life & bonding options to 2 good squads as well as Ornak, I'll give him the versitility nod over the rest.
3. Crixus - 5 ATT & OSD gives him a good stand alone role in any army.

4. Best in Point Bargain

Since they all cost the same amount of points, I think that is what we are trying to determine with this debate.

5. Best in Tournament Setting

1. Sir Hawthorne - Tourneys are all about squad scape and this guy bonds with 2 different 4 member squads. Plus his potential for multiple attacks helps in squad scape too.
2. Atgala - #1 in Support and #1 in Versitility makes him a top Tourney choice, esspecially if you are bringing some Kyrie squads.
3. Warden 816 - Ranged attack of 7, melee Special attack of 5, & 6 DEF makes him a good end game clean up unit while his support unit status makes him useful early in the game too.

6. Best in Dungeon Setting

Not sure about this since the 'Dungeon Set' is not out yet or what exactly this means. For my response I will define 'Dungeon Setting' as a senerio in which a team of only good heros faces off vs. Utgar forces featuring minimal squads.

1. Troll - With only heros to fight, this guy will excell in a big way.
2. NGS - In Hero vs. Hero battles this guy is hard to kill and if he were to pick up a +1 attack magic item he would pack a good punch too.
3. Retiarus - Another guy who would benifit to fighting mostly heros and not seeing mobs of squads. With his net trap and 5 ATT he can take down Utgar Heros pretty quickly. Give him a healing potion and a +1 def magic item and he will be feared by Utgar.

[Obsidian]

I see a lot of debate as to who has the better survivability between Crixus and Ne-gok-sa. Let's look at Sisyphus's tables to get a better understanding.

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

Average Damage:

Attack/Defense

This table shows the average amount of damage caused in an attack.

        1       2       3       4       5       6       7       8       9       10
0       0.500   1.000   1.500   2.000   2.500   3.000   3.500   4.000   4.500   5.000
1       0.333   0.750   1.208   1.688   2.177   2.672   3.169   3.668   4.167   4.667
2       0.222   0.556   0.958   1.403   1.872   2.354   2.845   3.339   3.837   4.335
3       0.148   0.407   0.750   1.150   1.589   2.052   2.530   3.017   3.510   4.005
4       0.099   0.296   0.580   0.932   1.334   1.770   2.230   2.705   3.189   3.680
5       0.066   0.214   0.444   0.747   1.107   1.511   1.947   2.405   2.878   3.361
6       0.044   0.154   0.337   0.593   0.910   1.278   1.685   2.121   2.579   3.050
7       0.029   0.110   0.254   0.466   0.741   1.071   1.446   1.856   2.294   2.750
8       0.020   0.078   0.190   0.363   0.598   0.889   1.230   1.612   2.026   2.464
9       0.013   0.055   0.141   0.281   0.479   0.733   1.038   1.389   1.776   2.193
10      0.009   0.039   0.105   0.216   0.380   0.599   0.869   1.187   1.546   1.939

One Shield Defense(Crixus)

Average Damage:

Attack/Defense

This table shows the average amount of damage caused in an attack defended by a figure with one shield defense(i.e. Crixus, if the defending figure rolls at least one shield, the most damage it can recieve is one wound).

        1       2       3       4       5       6       7       8       9       10
0       0.500   1.000   1.500   2.000   2.500   3.000   3.500   4.000   4.500   5.000
1       0.333   0.750   1.167   1.563   1.938   2.297   2.646   2.988   3.327   3.663
2       0.222   0.556   0.903   1.229   1.528   1.802   2.058   2.302   2.537   2.767
3       0.148   0.407   0.694   0.970   1.220   1.443   1.644   1.828   1.999   2.162
4       0.099   0.296   0.531   0.765   0.982   1.174   1.343   1.492   1.626   1.748
5       0.066   0.214   0.403   0.603   0.793   0.965   1.116   1.246   1.359   1.459
6       0.044   0.154   0.305   0.473   0.642   0.799   0.938   1.059   1.162   1.250
7       0.029   0.110   0.229   0.370   0.518   0.662   0.794   0.910   1.009   1.093
8       0.020   0.078   0.171   0.288   0.417   0.549   0.674   0.787   0.885   0.969
9       0.013   0.055   0.127   0.223   0.335   0.454   0.571   0.682   0.780   0.866
10      0.009   0.039   0.094   0.172   0.267   0.374   0.483   0.590   0.689   0.776

The first table represents the average damage NGS recives, and I have highlighted his defense row. The second table does the same for Crixus. I highlighted the three and four defense rows because Crixus could be boosted by Spartacus.

When comparing Crixus at 3 def, it looks like NGS takes less damage on average until he is being attacked with 7 dice or more. If Crixus is inspired then NGS takes less damage until an attack of 6 or more.

Most attacks are under 6 dice, so I think it's pretty clear that NGS has the better survivability.

As for the other categories:

2. Best in Support: Atlaga with a close second to Parmenio.

3. Best in Versatility: Sir Hawthorne

4. Best in Point Bargain: Sir Hawthorne

5. Best in Tournament Setting: Atlaga

6. Best in Dungeon Setting: NGS (lots of heros means lots of Mindshakle chances).

I am voting for NGS because he gives me that nostalgic feeling of the first MS, and Mindshakle is always a thrilling 20 sided dice roll.

[Jexik]

1. Best in Survivability

Ne-Gok-Sa, no contest. He's like a medium Q9 for half the cost.

2. Best in Support

Atlaga- 5 move Minions? Yes please.

3. Best in Versatility

None of these guys are that versatile, really. Sir Hawthorne has a special attack, and the strange position of being 4th Mass tech.

4. Best in Point Bargain

Crixus is pretty great for killing other heroes, especially empowered.

5. Best in Tournament Setting

Atlaga, I guess, for Minion support and the odd chance of winning a game. NGS if we're talking about Heat of Battle.

6. Best in Dungeon Setting

Feral Trolls are a pretty awesome roadblock.

[Melwing17]

Crixus has been, and will continue to be, my favorite figure. With or without other gladiators around. I just like him.

But I have to vote for Altaga overall. Flying + ranged + slim chance but awesome d20 ability= win. I wouldn't consider myself knowledgeable enough to vote in the specific categories.