Which comes first, Scatter or rat death?

[Snotwalker 8000]

There's nothing to see here... move along people.

1) The rat is first killed and removed from the board
2) Then you scatter with 2 other rats
3) Then Cover Fire kicks in

This ruling just clarifies that scatter takes place before cover fire... it doesn't change the fact that after failing to roll enough shields for defense, you immediately apply wounds (killing the rat).

These are robotic rats, people... NOT robotic chickens running around after their heads are cut off.

SW8K

[RobertDD]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

There's nothing to see here... move along people.

1) The rat is first killed and removed from the board
2) Then you scatter with 2 other rats
3) Then Cover Fire kicks in

This ruling just clarifies that scatter takes place before cover fire... it doesn't change the fact that after failing to roll enough shields for defense, you immediately apply wounds (killing the rat).

These are robotic rats, people... NOT robotic chickens running around after their heads are cut off.

SW8K

Interesting discussion. It almost seems that in this case the FAQ explains too much. A ruling that Cover Fire is resolved after Scatter and Ignore Wound abilities are resolved seems to be sufficient and can never be used to justify some odd side effects (like "Dead Rats Scattering").

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

These are robotic rats, people... NOT robotic chickens running around after their heads are cut off.

SW8K

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

There's nothing to see here... move along people.

These are robotic rats, people... NOT robotic chickens running around after their heads are cut off.

SW8K

There are things I love...

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

There's nothing to see here... move along people.

1) The rat is first killed and removed from the board
2) Then you scatter with 2 other rats
3) Then Cover Fire kicks in

This ruling just clarifies that scatter takes place before cover fire... it doesn't change the fact that after failing to roll enough shields for defense, you immediately apply wounds (killing the rat).

I'm with Snotwalker here. I think the ordering clarification in the FAQ is just to make the game simpler so we don't have to roll the d20 to see whose power goes off goes first.

[Eirikr]

I would tend to agree that the intent of the FAQ was likely to just say that Scatter activates before Cover Fire (at least I hope so).

That being said why didn't they just say "Scatter activates first, then cover fire."

There must be a reason the stressed that "Scatter activates after rolling defense dice, Cover Fire activates after inflicting the wound (after attack/defense dice are counted)."

It seems clear to me that if scatter comes after rolling, and cover fire comes after inflicting the wound, which comes after dice are counted, which comes after dice are rolled, that if I were to make a ruling based on the wording of this FAQ I would say rats scatter before they take wounds.

Since this is not in the rule book, or on the cards, and since this FAQ was written to clarify Agent Skahen and Cover Fire, and not the Death Reavers and Scatter, I will certanly not change the way I play the rats unless I get further infromation to this affect, i.e. a ruling from the Guru or a proclamation from on high (roughly equal, no?...)

[Elf_Archer]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

This leads to more interesting situations (edit: came up with a few more).

Skahen attacks a Deathreaver who rolls fewer shields than Shacken rolled skulls. The Deathreaver then uses scatter to extreme fall off a cliff, into engagement with a Nakita agent, into a molten lava space. Any or all of these things kill the Deathreaver. Does Skahen still get to move another figure using cover fire?

Swap Shaken above for a Tagawa Samurai. Would the Tagawa gain a bloodlust marker?

What if a game comes down to Jotun against a Deathreaver. Jotun rolls 5 skulls against the Rat but after rolling defense and before being destroyed, the Deathreaver scatters onto the Glyph of Mitonsoul. A 1 is rolled for Jotun and he is destroyed. What happens/who wins?

I think that they both die. Glyphs are immediately activated, even in the middle of a move/attack/deffense phase. Thus Jotun dies, but the attack is still valid, and the rat also dies.

And in response to the fall off a cliff thing, I think that the unit doesn't get "credit" for killing the rats. The damage isn't applied until the rat is dead, and a normal overkill situation is reached.

I don't own the death reavers, but this new interpretation of the rules increases their in game potential, not decreases. I don't know why Long Heroscaper thought they were weakened.

Oh well, I don't own them, so I can't use this anyways, but it's not like I would draft the rats anyways.

[pegasus]

Originally Posted by Snotwalker 8000

1) The rat is first killed and removed from the board
2) Then you scatter with 2 other rats

Agreed, this is the logical way….but..... the wording on the Deathreavers card clearly states that after rolling defense dice you can move any 2 rats, with the emphasis on any. So as long as it’s not explicitly stated that ‘rolling defense dice’ equals “evaluating the result of the dice rolled’ any lawyer can defend the statement that the attacked Reaver can be among of the any 2.
I think this is unwanted and should be corrected in the Reavers faq. It should also be stated that defense dice should be rolled and evaluated for all attacked figures, to avoid the equally unwanted effect of Reavers scattering out of the danger zone when attacked by area effect attacks like the EA grenade attack.

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[rdhight]

Originally Posted by pegasus

It should also be stated that defense dice should be rolled and evaluated for all attacked figures, to avoid the equally unwanted effect of Reavers scattering out of the danger zone when attacked by area effect attacks like the EA grenade attack.

Those special attacks don't trigger Scatter, so the rats can't de-clump on the opponent's turn anyway.

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by pegasus

Agreed, this is the logical way….but..... the wording on the Deathreavers card clearly states that after rolling defense dice you can move any 2 rats, with the emphasis on any. So as long as it’s not explicitly stated that ‘rolling defense dice’ equals “evaluating the result of the dice rolled’ any lawyer can defend the statement that the attacked Reaver can be among of the any 2.
I think this is unwanted and should be corrected in the Reavers faq.

The point I would offer is that we, in fact, do have to apply a certain amount of normal logic or common sense to these rules. If you went, strictly, with the "move any 2 rats" rule in a tournament setting, you could say you were allowed to move two of your oppoent's rats or two in some other person's game. This would, obviously, be stupid as an interpretation of the rules. Ordinary logic should outweigh strained interpretations.

[pegasus]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

Ordinary logic should outweigh strained interpretations.

Yes it should. Unfortunately history teaches us that human beings have a strong tendancy to not work like that.

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by pegasus

Yes it should. Unfortunately history teaches us that human beings have a strong tendancy to not work like that.

Yes. Sad, but true.