Which Comes First, the Scenario or the Map?

[kolakoski]

Well met!

I've been sort of having a discussion, mostly with myself , about the necessity, or not, of presenting a picture of a Map, a detailed description of the terrain, a vague description, or nothing at all, with the presentation of a scenario. (See http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=1841.)

For me, the scenario idea or mechanic comes first, and can be played on any number of different maps. How is it for you all?

[Kaemon Awa 123]

Personally, if I were designing a scenario, (which has only happened twice) I would make the general idea first, and then build the map.

[tannergx]

I have limited involvement with scenarios, but at a high level I think it is a two-step ordered process:

1) Create Scenario - Determine the experience and story you ultimately want to unfold.

2) Interpret Scenario as a Map - the form follows the function.

I've posted one scenario where I wasn't involved in scenario creation, but I was responsible for interpreting it as a map:

Fort Centia


Again, my experience is limited, but in my view the map-maker is interpreting the scenario, and rarely would it be the reverse.

Cheers,

~tgx

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Very pretty Map, Tagger! And an elegant one. As is the scenario.

My wife is trying to take a picture of yet another Map I've created for The Rapture of Raelin!/A Swell Party!, with no success . She's going to AT&T tomorrow to find out why, but meanwhile . . . (I took some with our "real" camera, but won't download them, via Staples, until we take a lot more pictures again.)

I've reduced the story to its essence: There is a Glyph of Lodin to try to sit on and Raelin to capture. The Ballroom is now a very slightly raised trapezoid of Dungeon tiles, with Raelin on a further raised hex, and the Glyph at the base. There is a large area of Road (and flat Walkway) on either side, More Dungeon tiles (7-hexer with 2-hexer on top), and then Rock stairwells (around 3-hex Shadow mountains and a core Shadow hex just below the top) at the corners. There is Water to cross, but a low Road bridge (just above the Water, rather than a high causeway, does the job. On the other side is a raised Sand area, with Road steps that lead up to the top of 4-unit Pillars on each side. All the stairs are mostly double-spaced, so the Map now does not favor flyers or disfavor double-steppers. Only medium/small, single-spaced unique heroes will be allowed to start (HoB) on the Dungeon tiles, only these plus unique squads on Road hexes that are not linked to the Pillars (i.e., on the Ballroom side of the Water), and only these plus all the rest of the unique heroes (large/huge and double-spaced) on the Rock stairwells. Common heroes and squads may set up anywhere on the other side of the water from the ballroom. I long to play on it, but, at least, I can remember how I constructed the stairwells, both Rock and Pillar, for the Gang of Four's gameday on 8/26, if the guys will go along . . . In any event, I learned how to build some cool stairways!

[Targanth]

I'd have to say that while I think they go hand in hand to a great extent, the scenario idea would come first for me. If I want a scenario that will let Jotun throw some folks into lava, I need to build a lava map. Once I've built a map, then I have to look at it to see if it will allow Jotun to do his thing.

I don't see me building a map first and then saying, wow, I bet I could have Jotun throw some guys in the Lava with this map.

To go along with that idea though, when I come up with a scenario it is usually very structured along the lines of those included the SOTM or BftU. It probably has identified specific armies that will be involved.

[Lamaclown]

For me, although it has gone both ways, the majority of the time I come up with the scenario and then construct a map for it.

For my Trick or Treat scenario...



there are some maps it just wouldn't work well on because of the need for so many glyphs.

There are several scenarios I have created in which the map is as much a part of the scenario as the special rules themselves so the map is crucial to a balanced and fun scenario.

I think, depending on the scenario, a map may not be as crucial to balanced play but it does help others get a vision for your inspiration for the scenario and contributes to their enjoyment of playing through it. It also removes any doubt for those playing your scenario about whether the map they built will interfere with or compliment game play.

So, all that to say that, for me, the scenario usually comes first but often the map is right on its heels.

Was that enough rambling for you?

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by Targanth

. . . when I come up with a scenario it is usually very structured along the lines of those included the SOTM or BftU. It probably has identified specific armies that will be involved.

Originally Posted by Lamaclown

For me, although it has gone both ways, the majority of the time I come up with the scenario and then construct a map for it. . . .

I think, depending on the scenario, a map may not be as crucial to balanced play but it does help others get a vision for your inspiration for the scenario and contributes to their enjoyment of playing through it. It also removes any doubt for those playing your scenario about whether the map they built will interfere with or compliment game play.

So, all that to say that, for me, the scenario usually comes first but often the map is right on its heels.

Was that enough rambling for you?

Well met!

Targ, one of the things I enjoy the most about the scenarios I (and others) create is building (and playing) armies for them. I very rarely play a game where armies/units are specified in advance.

Clown, I know you're right, but, until recently, I was unable to post pictures. Thus, I resisted the idea that it was important to post a Map. But now that I'm a bit more plaeased with the Maps I've been building, and can put up a picture once in a while, I'm less resistant to building and displaying them.

[Lamaclown]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Thus, I resisted the idea that it was important to post a Map. But now that I'm a bit more plaeased with the Maps I've been building, and can put up a picture once in a while, I'm less resistant to building and displaying them.

Having read through your scenarios in the past (which I wish I could play some of them, but, alas, most of my group has gone off to college or will be in the next week) I think you have done a fine job of creating scenarios that will work on whatever maps the players come up with. Of course, now I look forward to seeing what you envision for your scenarios as far as map construction goes.

[habs1009]

I make a map then think of a scenario to play on it.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

The scenario still comes first. However, I no longer believe, in the same way, that it "can be played on any number of different maps." The map is too important. Finding a balance between aesthetics and playability is not easy (but that's another thread).