The Book of Spider-Man (Ultimate)

[MrNobody]

Yea

[IAmBatman]

Yea

[Arkham]

yea

[Yodaking]

FYI, the SP should be updated to whatever is being voted on. He's listed at 180 right now, but I see the vote is for him at 170. Assuming no other changes from the initial vote. yea

[Alexandros]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

FYI, the SP should be updated to whatever is being voted on. He's listed at 180 right now, but I see the vote is for him at 170. Assuming no other changes from the initial vote. yea

Thank you. This was fixed.

[Arch-vile]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Ultimate Spiderman

Army Test
Map: Cell Games Arena
Units: Spider-Man (170), Luke Cage, Moon Knight, Scarlet Spider Ben (700) VS Captain Cold, Abra Kadabra, Weather Wizard, Tar Pit, Captain Boomerang Digger (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Luke and the Spiders move out. Luke proved a good combo with Spidey, as Spidey’s Ultimate Sacrifice helps protect Luke while Spidey only takes one wound each time it’s used thanks to Luke’s Impenetrable Skin. The Rogues catch on to this and start attacking Spidey first instead when they can. Kadabra puts a couple wounds on Spidey. Spidey puts a couple wounds on Tar Pit with the Step Up boost. Kadabra puts 2 wounds on Luke, then Boomerang wounds Luke which Spidey takes instead. Spidey puts 3 wounds on Boomerang, then Luke kills Tar Pit. Kadabra finally kills Spidey.

Following this, Rogues and Defenders are pretty evenly matched. Luke falls before Cold does, giving the Rogues an advantage in the endgame, and ultimately the Rogues take this one.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Weather Wizard (0 wounds) wins.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Cell Games Arena
Units: Spider-Man (170), Luke Cage, Moon Knight, Scarlet Spider Ben (700) VS White Canary, Vibe, Caitlin Snow, Kid Flash Wallace (700)

Spoiler Alert!

White Canary’s squad moves out fast thanks to Vibe. Killer Frost is targeted first after she wounds Luke, and Spidey ends up dealing a 4-wound killing blow, which Vibe blocks with his one-time Quick Thinking. Spidey takes a wound from Luke but is also hit hard by Killer Frost. Spidey puts a couple wounds on White Canary. Luke kills White Canary, taking two unrevealed OMs with her. Taking advantage of the situation, Luke and Scarlet Spider kill Killer Frost too. Kid Flash kills Spidey.

After the major swing of killing White Canary early, the remainder of the Legends of Tomorrow cannot compete and fall easily without doing much.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Luke Cage (2 wounds), Scarlet Spider (1 wound), Moon Knight win.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Fun take on Spidey, I like the design. Ultimate Sacrifice and Step Up pair together well. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him go up 10-20 points as he’s a useful addition to any build where he bonds, just for the extra life. And having a situational 6 attack from range is really good. But I don’t think his current cost of 170 points is unreasonable either.

Also, did you want to change the Secret Identity as discussed below?

Originally Posted by Alexandros

I'm in favor of the crossover symbol. I originally wanted to give him a Thanos-esque resurrection power, and since a number of people I talked to at the time did not like that aspect of the character I kind of felt some pressure to remove it in the spirit of collaboration. Someone suggested changing his secret identity to leave the door open for a V2, but even if that happened they could *both* have crossover symbols.

[Alexandros]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Fun take on Spidey, I like the design. Ultimate Sacrifice and Step Up pair together well. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him go up 10-20 points as he’s a useful addition to any build where he bonds, just for the extra life. And having a situational 6 attack from range is really good. But I don’t think his current cost of 170 points is unreasonable either.

Also, did you want to change the Secret Identity as discussed below?

Interesting. We'll see what Nobody's results say- but maybe it would be best to switch his attack buff up so it only works on adjacent attacks, and keep the cost the same?

Also, I'm okay with just naming him Peter Parker. I'll propose that change, with any others that might need made, at the end of the playtesting process- unless there's a reason that should happen sooner.

Thank you for the playtest.

[MrNobody]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Spider-Man (Ultimate)

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Ultimate Spider-Man (170), Superior Spider-Man (260), Silk (220), Ben Scarlet Spider (190), Spider-Man India (150), Spider-Bots (30)
Team 2 (1,000): Ms. Marvel (350), The Darkness (330), New Avengers Captain America (220), Darklings (100)

Pre-game thoughts: Ultimate Spidey and India seem like they’re a nasty protective pod.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T2 wins initiative
-Carol inflicts 2 wounds on Ben

Round 2: T1 wins initiative
-India takes out a Darkling
-India saves Ben from dying
-Silk takes out a Darkling
-India takes out a Darkling
-Carol inflicts 2 wounds on Ben

Round 3: T2 wins initiative
-Carol takes out a Bot
-India inflicts a wound on Carol, but she counters him, inflicting a wound
-A Darkling protects Darkness from India’s attack
India saves Ben from dying
-Silk inflicts 2 wounds on Carol, but Carol counters, inflicting a wound back

Round 4: T1 wins initiative
-Silk takes out Carol
-T2 had OM1 on Carol, so they lose a turn
-Silk inflicts a wound on Cap
-Ben inflicts a wound on Darkness
-Darkness murders one of his own Darklings
-Darkness inflicts 1 wounds each on Ultimate Spidey and India, and takes out Ben and a Bot
-India inflicts a wound on Darkness
-Ultimate takes a wound for India

Round 5: T1 wins initiative (due to Superior and a Bot)
-Silk inflicts 2 wounds on Cap
-India inflicts a wound on Darkness
-Darkness murders one of his Darklings
-Darkness inflicts a wound on India
-Cap counters Silk, inflicting a wound
-Cap inflicts 2 wounds on Silk

Round 6: T1 wins initiative
-Darkness murders one of his Darklings
-Darkness inflicts a wound on Ultimate, a wound on India, and takes out a Bot
-Ultimate inflicts a wound on Darkness
-India inflicts a wound on Darkness
-Darkness murders one of his own Darklings
-Darkness inflicts a wound on India
-Ultimate takes a wound for India

Round 7: T1 wins initiative
-Ultimate steps up, taking out Cap
-Ultimate makes the real Ultimate Sacrifice, dying for India
-Silk inflicts 2 wounds on Darkness
-India inflicts 1 wound on Darkness
-Darkness takes out India
-Otto takes out a Darkling
-T2 had OM3 on Cap, so they lose a turn

Round 8: T2 wins initiative
-Darkness takes out Silk
-Otto inflicts 5 wounds on Darkness
-Darkness murders a Darkling
-Darkness inflicts a wound on Otto

Round 9: T1 wins initiative (due to Otto)
-Darkness inflicts 3 wounds on Otto
-Otto inflicts 2 wounds on Darkness
-Darkness takes out Otto

Special power usages:
Normal attack: 6 wounds inflicted (4 on Darkness, 2 on Captain America)
Ultimate Sacrifice: 3 wounds taken (3 for Spider-Man India)
Step Up: 2 boosted attacks (1 against Darkness, 1 against Cap)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Darkness (1/6 wounds), Darklings (3 figures)

Post-game thoughts: Man, the Darkness is hard to kill. He didn’t quite solo the Spiders, but it was close. Ultimate Spidey felt fine, and paired well with Spider-Man India.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Ultimate Spider-Man (170), Captain Universe Spider-Man (350), Spider-UK (210), Anya Spider-Girl (170), Spider-Army Recruit (100)
Team 2 (1,000): Avengers Vision (340), Avengers Scarlet Witch (330), Avengers Doctor Strange (320), Final Ruin (10)

Pre-game thoughts: Another Spider-Verse build, this time with the intent for Ultimate to be mostly passive and protect Captain Universe.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

NOTE: Vision rolls 4 skulls and 2 shields for Analytical Avenger.

Round 1: T2 wins initiative
-Universe inflicts a wound on Wanda
-Wanda would inflict a wound on Universe, but Ultimate takes it instead
-Anya inflicts a wound on Strange

Round 2: T2 wins initiative (due to Strange)
-Strange heals Wanda
-UK inflicts a wound on Wanda
-Anya inflicts 2 wounds on Strange
-Vision inflicts 2 wounds on Anya
-Universe inflicts a wound on Wanda

Round 3: T1 wins initiative
-Strange flubs his Arcane Avenger, wounding Vision
-Anya inflicts a wound on Strange
-UK inflicts a wound on Wanda
-Anya inflicts a wound on Strange
-Vision inflicts a wound on Anya
-Anya takes out Strange
-Wanda would inflict 2 wounds on Universe, but Ultimate takes it instead

Round 4: T1 wins initiative
-Anya inflicts 2 wounds on Vision
-Wanda would inflict 2 wounds on Anya, but Ultimate makes the Ultimate Sacrifice and dies
-The Recruit takes out Wanda
-Vision inflicts 2 wounds on UK
-Universe destroys Vision

Special power usages:
Normal attack: 0 wounds inflicted
Ultimate Sacrifice: 4 wounds taken (3 from Universe, 1 from Spider-Girl)
Step Up: 0 boosted attacks

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Captain Universe (0/5 wounds), Spider-Uk (2/5 wounds), Spider-Girl (3/4 wounds), Spider-Army Recruit (0/3 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: Wow! Another wipe, but in the opposite direction. I don’t think it had a ton to do with Ultimate Spidey, but he definitely pulled a few wounds off the big pieces in critical moments.

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I think a lot of his value is going to come from protecting other key pieces in Spider-Verse builds. He’s pretty solid in that role, especially when he’s protecting a defensive piece who is in turn protecting him.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: If I’m being honest, I could see tweaking down the defensive protection and upping the offensive power.

Took me long enough!

[Shiftrex]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Spider-Man (Ultimate)

Army Test 1
Map: Grundy's Grave (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): 190 Ghost-Spider (Gwen Stacy)
160 Spider-Man (Hobie Brown C)
170 Spider-Man (Miles Morales) (I)
260 Spider-Man (Otto Octavius)
240 Spider-Man (Peter Parker) (Spider-Verse)
170 Spider-Man (Benjamin Parker)
1190, 6 hexes
Team 2 (1,000): 190 Hydro-Man (Morris Bench)
250 Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) (II)
220 Rhino (Aleksei Sytsevich)
200 Kraven (Sergei Kravinoff)
120 Firefly (Garfield Lynns)
210 Sandman (William Baker)
1190, 6 hexes

Pre-game thoughts: First time playing with Spider-verse people, pretty excited though I had to cut down to get to the point total I wanted. I'm thinking that I can use Ghost-Spider to get a strong turn to cement a lead while using Ben Parker to protect Otto. On closer examination, Ben can protect Otto's Order Markers from Kraven's nerve punch which is invaluable against a strong figure.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

[COLOR=red]

Early: I start grouping up the spidermen on the field around the height on the asphalt towards my side of field but not before Kraven is able to charge over to my side quick. Sinister Six ramp up pretty quick even though I won initiative early on. Otto gets caught on low ground and but we manage to block all wounds and move up to height to drop some dice on his head. Kraven fights his way back onto the center of the board, chasing Otto and dropping to half health. Firefly also takes the center of the board and becomes my main focus as I am wary of the unblockables that I have no abilities to interact with.

Mid: Rhino and Kraven take up the bulk of the midgame with the rest of the Sinister Six moving up onto the asphalt after I lose initiative. I did deploy the spiderverse reserves to try and bring Otto down but it would up being pretty ineffective and only putting a single wound on Otto. Hobbie makes his presence known midgame putting wounds everywhere with Punk Riot and making himself a target. Kraven goes down in the mid-game after Ben decides to protect him from back to back attacks from Kraven and Rhino. Ben winds up dying but Otto gets the revenge kill.

Late: Hobbie tries to go for broke against enemy Otto but only hits 1 skull on his 3 skull fender bender and my Otto goes down to Rhino. The endgame consists of Peter and Miles bringing down Dr. Octopus, Peter makes a final stand against Sandman but eventually falls to the unblockables that add up with a missed spider sense.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Sinister Six win! Sandman = Full health, Hydroman = 2 wounds, Rhino = 2 wounds.

Post-game thoughts: Ben was not heavy impact in the offense department this game because we were mostly fighting on a flat platform so I was trying to use him to block and protect my Order Marker hub. The ability for him to protect against OM manipulation tied to attacks was pretty crucial and stopped the game from just ending when Otto got double-teamed by heavy hitters.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Country Road (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000):160 Spider-Man (Hobie Brown C)
170 Spider-Man (Miles Morales) (I)
260 Spider-Man (Otto Octavius)
240 Spider-Man (Peter Parker) (Spider-Verse)
170 Spider-Man (Benjamin Parker)
1000, 5 hexes
Team 2 (1,000): 170 Yondu (Yondu Udonta C)
240 Charlie-27
230 Vance Astro
160 Nikki (Nicholette Gold)
200 Martinex (Martinex T'Naga)
1000, 6 hexes

Pre-game thoughts: A little bit wiser with the Spider-Verse build this time, I understand the roles of the figures I brought better here and and going to try and leverage Ben a bit more aggressively.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Early: Center of the board is where I wanted to be, Peter is my tank so I rushed him forward to the far portion of the bridge so no one could get even ground with him without walking all the way around. His backup was Ben who took a position on the bridge behind him and then Miles moved around on my side of the bridge to take up a shooting position from height near the stairs. Charlie moved up to engage Peter immediately and I started trading some fire with Vance and Company.

Mid: Peter's spider sense made him untouchable for almost the entire game, Nikki jumped up top to attack Ben who was able to use Step up next turn to almost kill her. After that turn Hobbie moved into engagement with Vance and put out a ton of wounds with Punk Riot, killing Nikki in the process. Otto stayed back near my end of the bridge while Miles moved up onto the bridge adequately protected by Ben and Peter. Yondu joined the fray to try and clean Hobbie off of Vance but it went rather poorly for him.

Late: Lategame consisted of Hobbie blowing his 3 unblockables again, Ben Parker going down to Vance and Miles dishing out a ton of damage from height. Ben and Miles were my main attackers for most of the late game as they could both throw out 5 dice consistently. Endgame is where Charlie was finally about to get through Spidersense and oneshot Peter who held him in engagement all game. Otto advanced up onto the bridge where he was able to finish off Charlie with support from Miles.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Spider-verse wins! Miles - 2 wounds, Otto - full life

Post-game thoughts: Ben Definitely earned his keep this game. I didn't use the defensive ability because Otto was never in danger but I kept him close so that he could soak wounds for Peter if Spider sense ever failed. He got to use Step up once because I was using him to zone for Peter specifically and Miles was protected by using his camouflage.

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I see him as a bit of a bruiser/wound soaker role at the moment. The ability to get 6 attack or 7 attack from height in a Spider-verse Army is not joke because it can net the revenge kill or just crack a big unit that the ground might struggle against. The ability to protect Otto's order markers from OM removal like Kraven is really huge because Otto's high defense means that Ben shouldn't be soaking a large amount of wounds to begin with. The ability to choose between tanking and using Step Up is pretty powerful, both have situations where I feel I want to use them right now.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I'm happy with where the unit fared in the test but that might also be because he provided me counterplay/protection. I think interaction against abilities is a huge part of the game to appreciate, while OM abilities are powerful the ability to take wounds to prevent the ones that rely on attacks seems like a calculated trade off. Will definitely be using Step Up in a crime fighter build with someone like Luke Cage in the future.

[Alexandros]

Thanks for the great playtests, guys.

It looks like he won a little less than half of the time, and it sounds like he wasn't very high impact in one of these games. Still, I hear the concerns about being too good at the defensive and offensive roles at the same time. I'm wondering what y'all think of the following changes

Originally Posted by Alexandros

NAME = Spider-Man (Earth 1610)
SECRET IDENTITY = PETER PARKER (Crossover Symbol)

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CRIME FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = RESOLUTE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 4

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 170

ULTIMATE SACRIFICE
If a friendly figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Spider-Man would receive one or more wounds from an opponents normal attack, If possible, Spider-Man may use Swing Line to move adjacent to that figure. If he does, Spider-Man must receive those wounds instead.

STEP UP
When Spider-Man or a figure you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Spider-Man receives one or more wounds from an enemy figure's attack, during your next player turn, you may add 2 to Spider-Man's Attack number while attacking that opponent's figure with an adjacent normal attack.

SWING LINE 4
Instead of his normal move, Spider-Man may move up to 4 spaces with Swing Line. When moving with Swing Line, Spider-Man has the Flying special power, but may not move up or down more than 40 levels in a single swing, and will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

SUPER STRENGTH

1. I fixed up the naming issue.
2. I also gave him the crossover symbol to match change #1.
3. I changed Step Up to only boost a normal attack against an adjacent opposing character. This should make it riskier for Peter to Step Up, and slightly more difficult to gain height advantage, reducing his chances of getting 7 attack dice.

[Arch-vile]

[Ericth74]

I think those are good