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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old March 13th, 2023, 06:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - VOTE for Playtesting

Yea
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  #38  
Old March 13th, 2023, 05:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - VOTE for Playtesting

Yea
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  #39  
Old March 13th, 2023, 05:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - VOTE for Playtesting

This passes.

Thanks guys!


EDIT: Slight change to Master Blow. Going to make it a "may" power, so the strategy doesn't become, "get him to 4 wounds and throw a squaddie at him."
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  #40  
Old March 31st, 2023, 03:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Bolt (II)
Version Tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Ivy’s Greenhouse
Units:
Black Bolt (330), Namor (280), Reed Richards (200), Professor X (190) (1000)
Ms. Marvel, Cap I, Winter Soldier (Team Up), Moon Knight (Avengers) (1,000)
Results:
This game had what I would call “Smilex Syndrome,” where one good AoE roll is met with a pod of terrible defense rolls, and it cripples the opposing team severely. Black Bolt died the first turn of Round 2, but managed to let off two 4-out-of-6 skull screams each round. First did 3 wounds on Marvel, 2 on Cap, 1 on Bucky, and finished off a Great Evergreen, which did an additional wound on each of them. The second scream destroyed Marvel and did 2 wounds on Bucky.

I could have used Master Blow round 2, but it was better to use the AoE attack while I had multiple eligible targets. The initiative movement was useful for Professor X, especially with the teleportation belt.

After Black Bolt died, the Illuminati was struggling to get wounds in, and Moon Knight managed to close the gap a bit by the endgame. Still, a solid win for the Illuminati.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: City Park
Units:
Black Bolt (330), Iron Man (270), Black Panther (II) (220), Namor (280), Reed (200) (1,300)
Professor X (220), Cyclops (190), Jean Grey (180), Wolverine (Avengers) (270), Storm (270), Beast (170) (1300)
Results:
Kind of a weird build using Black Panther (II) instead of the Avengers version, because Black Panther, Iron Man and Namor are all competing for the X Order Marker, and Reed had more Kings than Visionaries to give inventions to.
On the other hand, I was really unable to wield Storm effectively, and usually wasn't rolling more than 2 skulls against better defense rolls.
Panther was the real terror in this game. Black Bolt was more of a looming threat that I had to manage by Negotiating order markers off of Bolt and Panther to deny him turns, while Bolt blocked most of my attacks.

Because Iron Man died in R1T3, Black Bolt was able to use his full scream, but only landed 2 of 8 skulls, which put 1 wound on Cyclops. Then Namor died R2T3, and he had another full scream, this time landing 6 of 8 skulls, which 1-shot Jean, and finished off Cyclops.

I won initiative most of the time, and there weren’t really any D20’s for Black Bolt to boost, but when they won initiative, it allowed Reed to give Black Bolt the Anti-Krypronite Suit.

No use of Master Blow this game.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Conflict Cherobyl
Units:
Black Bolt (II) (330), Black Panther (210), Namor (280), Doctor Doom (375) (1195)
Doc Ock (250), Sandman (210), Grey Gargoyle (200), Kraven (200), Grid (200), Wizard (140) (1,200)
Results:
This is a House of M Council of Kings build, which turned out to be more of a demonstration of the strength of Doom and Black Panther (Avengers).
Honestly, I think these results should just be thrown out, since it was a series of misfortunes and missteps that resulted in basically a rush-to-get-this-over-with playstyle, like having Wizard intentionally not use his X shield so that he dies faster.

To summarize, Grid had Sandman move to center map, which only succeeded in Sandman being destroyed by Doom+BB from Panther bonding on turn 1.
Then Doom and Panther put 5 wounds on Kraven on turn 2.
BB finishes off Kraven Turn 3.
Round 2, Grid moves Ock into a Pit Trap and Fending Daggers, and then Doom destroys Ock Turn 1, and the game was basically forfeited at that point.

Again, not really much to learn from this game about Black Bolt.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Black Bolt (330), Namor (280), Reed Richards (200), Professor X (190) (1000)
Fantastic Four (1000)
Results:
Black Bolt was able to zoom in and get 3 wounds on Sue R1T2 with a 4 of 6 skull scream.
R2T1 he landed a second 4 skull scream, which did 2 wounds on Thing and 1 on Sue.
A fully powered Thing destroyed Black Bolt on the next turn.

After Black But fell, the Illuminati were not dealing wounds fast enough and Flame On + Turn Efficiency took the game.

Taciturn Tactician was great for getting Xavier and Namor into good spots.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
It’s nice having a fast tank option for the Illuminati with a ranged SA option. Draftability and Cost are right, but I’ll tone down the base attack of the Broken Silence SA to 5 or 4.
I didn’t write down the rolls for the Sinister Six game, but for the other three games, the rolls were:
4/6, 4/6, 2/8, 6/8, 4/6, 4/6.
Far above average luck with every roll of 6 dice landing 4 skulls, but it covers a big area, and even at once-per-round, an AoE of 5 is still good, and 4 is not bad.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
I like him. I’m looking forward to trying him in bigger games, where I think he’ll be even more dynamic. I should also try playing him in the reserves more often, since I tended to send him out for explosive damage, and have him fall quickly. Lowering the base SA to 4 would encourage him to hold back more until later in the round.

KARAT’S THOUGHTS:
Blackbolt is a huge threat. His extra movement does a lot for his team and he himself is a powerhouse. Broken Silence is probably the biggest threat in my opinion. He can consistently use it and to devastating effect (depending on dice luck). Master Blow is neat and can absolutely be clutch in the right situation but is such a risk/reward type power that it rarely comes into play and by the time that it could he's weakened enough that he may just be taken out before he can use it.

I feel like the Illuminati as a whole is problematic but that Black Bolt isn't the major instigator of that. Black Panther is the one that really causes issues there, especially if you add in Doom and his Pit Trap to the equation. Blackbolt's extra movement absolutely helps out Black Panther set up his defensive pod though which makes me wonder if 330 isn't just a bit low (maybe up 20 points to 350) for what Blackbolt is bringing to the team (a heavy hitter that can tank a few hits and some extra movement if you win initiative which gets more likely if you bring Beast and Iron Man). His d20 boost seemed fairly negligible could be more useful by keeping him closer with the others and if you brought along Beast.

Overall though, he is an interesting design with a lot of neat little tricks that will let him fit into multiple builds. I am a bit concerned with how handily his team handled a couple of the teams that should be able to go toe to toe with the Illuminati most of the time (Cap+Ms Marvel Avengers team). Granted, luck was decidedly not on their side either which obviously had an effect there.
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  #41  
Old March 31st, 2023, 03:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle View Post
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
It’s nice having a fast tank option for the Illuminati with a ranged SA option. Draftability and Cost are right, but I’ll tone down the base attack of the Broken Silence SA to 5 or 4.
I didn’t write down the rolls for the Sinister Six game, but for the other three games, the rolls were:
4/6, 4/6, 2/8, 6/8, 4/6, 4/6.
Far above average luck with every roll of 6 dice landing 4 skulls, but it covers a big area, and even at once-per-round, an AoE of 5 is still good, and 4 is not bad.
What do you guys think, 4 or 5 for the base attack?
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  #42  
Old March 31st, 2023, 04:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle View Post
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
It’s nice having a fast tank option for the Illuminati with a ranged SA option. Draftability and Cost are right, but I’ll tone down the base attack of the Broken Silence SA to 5 or 4.
I didn’t write down the rolls for the Sinister Six game, but for the other three games, the rolls were:
4/6, 4/6, 2/8, 6/8, 4/6, 4/6.
Far above average luck with every roll of 6 dice landing 4 skulls, but it covers a big area, and even at once-per-round, an AoA of 5 is still good, and 4 is not bad.
What do you guys think, 4 or 5 for the base attack?
I'd start with 5 and adjust after that.
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  #43  
Old March 31st, 2023, 04:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

5 sounds good!
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  #44  
Old March 31st, 2023, 04:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

You guys are quick, thanks!
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  #45  
Old April 8th, 2023, 03:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

Testing today, anything anyone wants to see?
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  #46  
Old April 8th, 2023, 07:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Bolt (Illuminati)
VERSION TESTED
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Island Plane Crash.
Units: OG Illuminati - Black Bolt, Iron Man, Namor, Doc Strange (1,200) vs Thor Corps - Thor I, Beta Ray Bill, Valkyrie (1,200)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Island Plane Crash.
Units: Illuminati - Black Bolt, Iron Man, Black Panther, Professor X (1,000) vs King Kong (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: The cost is where it needs to be for army building, but against heavy hitters (which I felt was fair since the Illuminati is supposed to deal with big threats) he doesn’t match cost and the games are more determined by his teammates. This is due to the fact that he was very much a glass cannon in these games and fell before he could use abilities that operate under him being wounded or his teammates being destroyed. Dr Strange lasts far longer at 10 points cheaper. In terms of his powers, I don’t think his life/defense should go any higher and that wouldn’t help drastically anyway. I think we should lean into his fragility as a powerhouse and a simple change of 4 to 3 wounds on Master Blow would suffice to be a fun draft for the Illuminati. It might mean he goes down earlier, but at least he would get some big damage in more often.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: He fills in some nice holes for the team, but each power sort of needs different things to happen to get the most out of him. His teams had one medium loss and one very close loss getting Kong down to 1 life. I think Master Blow should only require 3 wounds for his price to be worth it. Overall a fun, thematic unit.
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  #47  
Old April 14th, 2023, 04:11 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

Thanks Splash! I like that suggestion of 3 life for Master Blow. Using it with fewer wounds means he's less likely to destroy the figure, and himself. Means he can do a bit of hulking up, which suits his longstanding rivalry with Hulk.
Tested it with that change.
-------
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT:
Version Tested:
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map:
Conflict Cherobyl
Units:
Black Bolt (330), Iron Man (270), Black Panther (210), Professor X (190) (1000)
Hulk (450), Spider-Man (280), Wolverine (270) (1000)
Results:
Black Bolt only lasted 1 round. His visible contributions are in blue in the spoilers.
He died in 2 attacks from the Hulk, but did 3 wounds to Hulk from his Master Blow. Those brought Hulk to 6 wounds, which made it too risky for Hulk to engage the Illuminati for fear of Fending Daggers, so Hulk had to rely on throwing Wolverine at them, and clapping. It might have gone in Hulk's favor if I had switched to Wolverine on Round 2 instead. Then, once Wolverine died, place OMs on Spider-Man to use Hulk's Rivalry, because Spidey's bonding was useless when Hulk can't engage.

Was rusty doing this, and had tried this matchup for 2 incomplete games before this one. It felt fairly even.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: City Park
Units:
Black Bolt (330), Namor (280), Reed Richards (200), Professor X (190) (1000)
Fantastic Four (1000)
Results:
Really interesting game. Visible results are in blue in the spoilers.
Taciturn Tactician boosted Mental Blast to destroy Mr. Fantastic R1T3. It also allowed Reed to move to give a 3-wound Namor the Experimental Medicine, which brought Namor back to full health. Unfortunately, Torch was able to reach Reed and destroy him quickly, removing the aid of Contingency to setup full Screams.

Black Bolt only dealt 1 wound from his 1 attack, but that scream with his speed was able to reach Torch, despite Torch retreating after Sue and Mr. F fell. Bolt took the attention off of Namor, who went on to do great things the rest of the game.
Bolt's scream brought Torch to 4 wounds, which meant no more more Flame On, but sadly, the fully enraged Thing with height immediately Clobbered Black Bolt in 2 attacks.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
I agree with Splash that Bolt is very glass cannony, especially for his cost. His team won both games, and he certainly helped, but he also died from two attacks both games. However, those were from Hulk and Thing, so tough to gauge.
I also agree that you're probably going to get more out of Strange for 10pts less.

Taciturn Tactician provides some interesting interactions, so I'd consider making Master Blow active at 4 wounds and bumping his life by one to 7 to give him just a bit more longevity to offer his support.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
I like how he plays. Eager to get this voted into Final Editing before the 1.0 deadline, so curious about thoughts on that last tweak.
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  #48  
Old April 14th, 2023, 08:25 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Bolt (II) - Playtesting

That tweak sounds good to me.
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