Range "Special" and Attack "Special"

[GreyOwl]

I mentioned this in the NM24 thread, but I didn't want to derail it by discussing it in there.

Basically, I'm wondering if we can come to a community consensus as to when exactly a Range or Attack is considered "Special", as opposed to an actual number. I'm personally not clear what to infer from how they're used on the official cards.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

I mentioned this in the NM24 thread, but I didn't want to derail it by discussing it in there.

Basically, I'm wondering if we can come to a community consensus as to when exactly a Range or Attack is considered "Special", as opposed to an actual number. I'm personally not clear what to infer from how they're used on the official cards.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I would think that any time the range or attack is variable, listing at as Special and explaining the conditions in the text would be optimal.

[GreyOwl]

Except in some cases, it is listed as "Attack 3, 4, or 5" or "Range 4 or 5". I'm trying to define when that's different from "Range Special".

[Aldin]

It looks like "Special" is used in attacks whenever you need to consult another figure on the board before determining how many dice to use. In the case of Shiori you're looking at size. In the case of the Elves, you're looking for other Elves.

For range, it looks like "Special" is employed whenever the targettable hexes within that range need to be further defined - though since Mimring is the only example there may be another reason.

~Aldin, once again singing GaryLASQ's praises

[GreyOwl]

That may be a workable definition, Aldin.

For Range I was thinking it was "Special" whenever it affects only some hexes within a given range, but not others (like Mimring). But if the range worked as normal, but was variable based on some condition, like it is Range 4 under one situation but Range 5 in another, then it wouldn't be "Special". It would instead be "Range 4 or 5".

[GreyOwl]

Actually, another possibility is that different attack numbers are listed whenever you have a choice, but "Special" is used for when you don't. For example, Queglix Gun Special Attack is listed as "Attack 1, 2 or 3" because the choice is totally up to you. But Shuriken Special Attack is listed as "Special" because you don't get to choose the size of the figure.

Obviously you can choose which figure to attack and make that determination based on size, but what I'm saying is that once you've chosen who to attack (you've "targeted a figure"), do you have a choice at that point to determine how many attack dice you roll or not?

I'm sure there's a more concise way to say that...

EDIT: Maybe something like "After a figure has been targeted for an attack, if you have a choice as to how many attack dice to roll, list them separately. If you do not have a choice, but the number of attack dice may still be affected by other circumstances, list it as "Special" ".

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Actually, another possibility is that different attack numbers are listed whenever you have a choice, but "Special" is used for when you don't. For example, Queglix Gun Special Attack is listed as "Attack 1, 2 or 3" because the choice is totally up to you. But Shuriken Special Attack is listed as "Special" because you don't get to choose the size of the figure.

Obviously you can choose which figure to attack and make that determination based on size, but what I'm saying is that once you've chosen who to attack (you've "targeted a figure"), do you have a choice at that point to determine how many attack dice you roll or not?

I'm sure there's a more concise way to say that...

EDIT: Maybe something like "After a figure has been targeted for an attack, if you have a choice as to how many attack dice to roll, list them separately. If you do not have a choice, but the number of attack dice may still be affected by other circumstances, list it as "Special" ".

I see what you are saying Grey Owl. In the case of Might Thor discussion on NM24, you might not have a choice as to which figure you're attacking because it would depend on whether you are engaged or not because it would determine whether you can use range or not. So the attack would be "Special". But couldn't the range also be "Special" in his case because he might not have a choice as to his range? If he's surrounded by opponents, his range is predetermined and he could only use the whirlwind type special. He could also start out not engaged and opt to drop into a group of opponents to do the whirlwind thing or throw the hammer.

[GreyOwl]

But I think the key is whether you have a choice in determining the # of attack dice after you've already selected a target. In Thor's case, you don't have a choice - once you've selected a target, you're bound by whether they're engaged or not. Therefore, "Attack Special".

That being said, I'm thinking that my definition and Aldin's may in fact result in the same thing. I can't think of a scenario where you wouldn't have a choice, yet it doesn't depend on another figure. But then again, I suppose a custom creator could come up with anything.

For the Range, the criteria is completely different and doesn't depend on choice. It has to do with radius. If all spaces withing a given radius are possible to target (like with almost all attacks), then use the numbers. However, if only some spaces within the radius are targetable (like Mimring's Fire Line), then it's a "Range Special". In Thor's case, whether he uses the 1 or 5 range, he can target any figure within that radius, so it wouldn't be special. Hence, "Range 1 or 5."

Make sense?

[Aldin]

Yeah - but it really should be two different powers

~Aldin, shockingly

[GreyOwl]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Yeah - but it really should be two different powers

~Aldin, shockingly

I agree with that, but I already tried to make that case.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

That being said, I'm thinking that my definition and Aldin's may in fact result in the same thing. I can't think of a scenario where you wouldn't have a choice, yet it doesn't depend on another figure.

Terrain. The Obsidian Guard flirts with this. Q10, by the way, is a good example of a similar circumstance where the designers seperated a varied Special Attack into two different powers.

~Aldin, specially

[GreyOwl]

I'm afraid I still didn't understand. Can you give me a specific example (even a hypothetical one will do) of where your definition and mine would result in a different outcome?