Time For An Overhaul?

[Nobody]

Good evening folks!

Just finished writing a PM response to Joseph Sweeney; rather exciting seeing my idea take form! Alas, as much as I would have loved to take a more direct hand in this, work and family take precedence! That and Joseph Sweeney seems to really want to do this =).

However, I still have a few more thoughts in this matter!

1.) Where would this trade index go? Heroscapers Online? Sighting and Sales? I strongly agree that there should be a trade subforum at the very least, as per happyjosiah's original post (I think he's mentioned it elsewhere as well). Trading/buying things secondhand is a huge part of this out of print game (just talking about the official stuff!). Without it, I might not have been able to get into this game just three months ago (short of moving in with my friend who got me into this game in the first place. I'm sure his wife wouldn't find that awkward at all!) A disclaimer post could indemnify the site from the trading that goes on, if that is even a concern.

2.) While there are distinct advantages and disadvantages to having only one person manage the primary trade thread, I wonder if it is possible for a several people to be able to edit one post without having to be moderators. A trade index would be significantly more dynamic than the other indices (hopefully my sense of the numbers of traders on this site isn't overly inflated), so it would be beneficial to allow for multiple people with the ability to update the list. I dont know if this is even possible in a forum setting though. Does this forum have something akin to a mailing list? That way several people can be informed of an update rather than just one.

3.) Is it possible to have sortable tables in a post? Being able to sort through the list might be quite a handy feature, but I doubt javascript is permissible. A table with the date that the person updated the list and maybe one or two featured wants/haves would greatly facilitate things. I know it would definitely help me complete my collection. I saw how the Books thread had multiple spoiler blocks that had different sorting arrangements, but this list is dynamic so that would be quite bothersome to manage.

4.) Is there a taboo/prohibition against posting personal trade threads? This would not only make indexing trade lists a LOT easier, but it would serve as a crude form of feedback. People would see one's personal trade list as the first post in each thread, for easy accessibilty. The master index or main trade thread could be used to alert people to an update, or emphasize specific haves/wants. Updates would be easy to see and manage, since again, it s the first post. And people could see it as recently modified once they visit the forum. To expand upon the feedback aspect, after a successful trade, people could post in these threads so other people can see immediately see one's trade history, rather than wade through hundreds of pages in the primary thread. This could also allow for longer lists, and give people an idea about how popular/active the trader is based on view/post count. Hm! Maybe I ll give this a shot!

There, some more thoughts! I'm sure I'll have another thought sooner or later; they seem to keep showing up, like uninvited in-laws!

Have a nice day folks!

too long, didn't proofread!

[Mr. Pi the Math Guy]

I can't see how having a forum itself dedicated to trading would be a bad thing...

[bacchus]

I used to trade Magic Cards through a forum and I thought that system seemed to work quite well.

There was a Trade/Sales category, with multiple subsections, but the main ones required for what you guys are talking about would be 'Items for Sale/Trade' and 'References'. Individuals could post in the sales thread and edit their original post to remove what has sold, list items as pending, or add new stuff. The title of the thread could be edited to show the last date the list was updated.

Members would then create their own reference thread in the reference forum. When a successful trade or sale is complete, the members involved would find the person they traded with and leave positive feedback in that persons thread. This develops reputation for individuals that others could easily check before instigating a trade or sale. Most people would include a link to their reference thread in their signature.

All that said, I suspect there is less trading in Heroscape than there would be Magic cards.

I'd link to the site this came from for reference (assuming it still exists, I haven't been there for a while) but I assume that may be against the rules.

When it comes to the liability that a couple of people raised, there was never any issue that I was aware of for the site getting heavily involved in this process aside from usual moderation duties.

Hope this has been helpful.

[bacchus]

I just remembered, people could also post 'Wants' in the sales thread, so even if you didn't want to keep a sales list up to date, you might wander through and find a few things that people want and sell a few items that way.

[Just_a_Bill]

Sorry to necro a month-old thread, and to barge in with a new idea when there's already been so much good discussion ... but I was thinking about ways this could be accomplished without any software upgrades or custom development and without anybody having to take on the monumental (and error-prone) task of having to update an index all the time.

It seems there are perhaps four main issues here:

1. It's hard to find actual trade lists amid the "noise" of good trader reports and other posts.
2. It's hard to tell which lists are "current" (i.e., still valid and being maintained).
3. Suggesting anything that saddles the site leadership with liability is a bad idea.
4. Ideally one person shouldn't have a big maintenance task / be a point of failure.

It seems like we could accomplish something useful with the tools we already have. I suggest that the main problem with the current trade lists is simply that they are all strung together in a single thread, rather than one unique thread per user. Imagine if a new forum were created, called something innocuous like Scapers' Collections (to avoid the appearance that the site offers an official trade mechanism).



In theory, anybody can create their own vanity-thread here in which to boast or whine about the awesomeness or poverty of their own collection.

In reality, the users quickly decide among themselves (without any prompting from leadership) to use it mainly as a trade forum.



The Sticky post would explain that everyone is limited to ONE and ONLY ONE thread per user, where they may talk about their collection, and would set a limit on how often you can "bump" your own thread to keep it looking current — with appropriate penalties for abusers and folks with poor self-control.

Presumably a thread-naming convention would arise "spontaneously" among the users, along the lines of what I show in the mockups: perhaps SuperStud's Trade List if your username is SuperStud. Other users who want to just post about their collections without having an actual trade list would give their thread a different title, and it would be easy to see which is which. (But really, I don't expect many people to actually post a vanity-thread here; this is just the technical purpose of the forum, to help insulate the site leadership.)

Within each user's thread, the first post would contain the thread creator's trade list. The replies to that first post would be questions about items on the list, notifications from the OP that the list has been significantly updated, haggling posts, requests, notifications of sent PMs, and ... good trader reports!

Advantages for the Lister:

• Only one OP you ever have to maintain.
• Don't have to keep updating your sig with the location of your revised list.
• All your questions, answers, history of interest, etc. in a single thread.
• Can "bump" your thread once a month or so (whatever is allowed by the rules in the Sticky post) to indicate to folks who are browsing that your list is still current.

Advantages for the Searcher:

• Can quickly see which users' lists are still current, by checking the first two or three pages (or whatever) of the Scapers' Collections forum.
• All of the lister's trade references (as well as any unresolved problems) are available in his own thread ... just scroll and scan until you're satisfied. (Not unlike eBay's feedback history page.)
• Ability to subscribe to the traders you want to follow.
• As some users give up on maintaining their trade lists, they naturally slide down into the "past" so you can tell they're growing stale.

Issues to consider:

• Low-self-control traders will want to bump their threads a lot to stay near the top of the list. Rules/consequences will have to be expressed very clearly, and enforced without mercy.
• Some may whine about the one-thread-per-user limit. Too bad; you don't get a trade list and a separate vanity list. Pick one. (Nobody really cares about your vanity list in this forum, so be smart and pick the trade list.)

EDIT: I just read Nobody's long post above and saw that he had already suggested many of the same advantages. Sorry, didn't mean to plagiarize without credit; just a GMTA. But I'm sorry I didn't read your message first so I could acknowledge the prior art.

[happyjosiah]

Great idea!

[Just_a_Bill]

And I just realized, this is pretty much what's already happening in the Sightings and Sales forum, just with selling rather than trading. So it seems we just need a forum with a nice neutral label.

[Nobody]

Good evening!

@Just_a_Bill
Good to see that not all of my ideas were crazy! Or maybe we're both nuts =)

I had observed some threads in the Sales and Sightings subforums, namely ones like lonewolf's post. This is precisely what I had envisioned, where there is one primary post that is updated, and people could leave their feedback accordingly. He even bumped/promoted his list in the main thread! That is really the main problem I see with this idea, since it wouldn't be good if the primary trade thread turned into one massive bumping-self thread.

So! Decided that rather than sleeping, I should act upon this idea!

Please see this thread. This is close to what I had envisioned when I posted here earlier. Ideally it would be integrated directly into the post, but I think the only way to readily do that with googledocs is with Iframes or something not permissible here.

Feedback and some help would greatly be appreciated! I wonder how it will be received.

[SuperSamyon]

Hello,

I was actually going to create a similar thread but this thread sums up what I and many others have been thinking. We definitely need a section just for trading and sales since that is what most of us use this forum for nowadays. It is just not intuitive to have to go to two completely different sections (sightings and sales and HS Trading thread) to find out what is available.

Besides, if Heroscapers wants to keep this game alive as long as possible, we need to be able to provide Heroscape goods at reasonable prices which means getting people off of eBay. It is essential that we make trading and buying super easy so that new players are encouraged to buy in to this game.


I would also say that C3V and C3G need to have their own forum especially since they are the only ones producing new "semi" official Heroscape stuff.

We really don't need a separate place for General Discussion and News since there isn't much to talk about anymore.

Also, a number of this forums most useful threads are scattered throughout multiple subforums. I suggest we make a subforum with all the most useful threads on this forum moved there. Something called "the essentials" forum.

Finally, my pipe dream is that some of the custom terrain makers will get together and open up a side business that provides knockoffs of Heroscape terrain. If Heroscapers could make it easy for someone to, say, provide jungle terrain that looks just like the real thing (a feat made possible with the numerous guides available), this would be a great way for new users to enjoy certain elements of Heroscape that are locked away behind exorbitant prices.

Just my 2 cents.