Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

He does indeed have a chain; hence the range (one of the little statistical differences between him and Johnny).

The Penance Stare was actually introduced during Danny's tenure as Ghost Rider. Later they started using it for Johnny too, on the grounds that it's awesome. It feels weird to me for Johnny to have it and Danny to not, for that reason. It's really a Danny power.

Ugh! How did I miss the range! That's what I get for skimming.

Yeah, I see that completely. It's almost a shame Johnny has it since I don't really like the idea of two figures being so similar, but I guess it's unavoidable. At least there's slightly different stats and bonding between them? I'm not sure how I feel about that honestly - on the one hand I feel like building most of your army around two guys who are so similar seems a bit boring, but on the other hand I feel like having two real heavyweights zooming around the map together would be really cool and different from anything we've seen before.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Ugh! How did I miss the range! That's what I get for skimming.

Yeah, I see that completely. It's almost a shame Johnny has it since I don't really like the idea of two figures being so similar, but I guess it's unavoidable. At least there's slightly different stats and bonding between them? I'm not sure how I feel about that honestly - on the one hand I feel like building most of your army around two guys who are so similar seems a bit boring, but on the other hand I feel like having two real heavyweights zooming around the map together would be really cool and different from anything we've seen before.

Yeah, I turned this problem over for a while too, and the reason I'm cool with it is because Danny is specifically meant to be played with Johnny, not on his own.

I have been thinking about doing their bonding power as a Rivalry type thing. Not totally sure about how to tackle that yet, but it might be a good idea to shake it up from typical bonding to give the design more of a hook.

[Tornado]

Yeah, I sort of wish Johnny was the original version that used Hellfire to 'cold burn' victims soules. Really there is almost no reason to have a Danny Ketch GR.
Would love to see Hellfire JB but not having Danny to team up with would not be great.

Of course I was so happy to be a part of testing I did not speak up back then.

[johnny139]

I've been thinking a lot about Ghost Riders recently too what with Agents of SHIELD. Honestly, I wish we could come up with a good way to have a Rider-sans-ride version... like, in a Jean Grey -> Phoenix way, where you could draft him on the motorcycle and have him fighting hand-to-hand afterwards.



This figure is Ketch, right? Maybe that's an angle to go with... have the Motorcycle version come in cheaper (since, let's be honest, Ketch is just a discount Blaze ) but throw together a Ghost Walker version that you can draft together and have them add up to ~400 points.

[Ronin]

Honestly, I'd have to dispute the idea that Ketch is the discount Blaze. A lot of iconic Ghost Rider stuff comes from the Ketch run. Penance stare, the chains, Blackheart as a GR villain... A lot of stuff that people associate with Ghost Rider comes from Ketch, not Blaze. If I remember right, Johnny never even had the biker look before Danny did. Ghost Rider always dressed like a stuntman before that.

Walking/Riding would actually be a cool way to try and differentiate him mechanically, though.

[Tornado]

That was the figure I was considering for the future GotG GR known as the Spirit of Vengeance but would have to hack off the chain(which he does not use).
He can create a hellfire space bike.

[Ronin]

So maybe something like this?

Riding:

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE =6

POINTS = ?

BAILING OUT
You may draft this Danny Ketch into an army with one other Danny Ketch that is a Unique Hero without the Hellfire Motorcycle special power. This Danny Ketch starts the game on the battlefield, and the other Danny Ketch starts the game on this card. Whenever this Danny Ketch would be destroyed, you must instead switch the two figures and then remove this Danny Ketch from the game.

HELLFIRE MOTORCYCLE
Ghost Rider does not take leaving engagement attacks. When counting spaces for Ghost Rider's movement, count elevation changes of up to 2 levels as one space and ignore terrain effects of water, lava, heavy snow and slippery ice. You may ignore Ghost Rider's height when moving up levels of terrain.

SUPER STRENGTH

Walking:

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE =5

POINTS = ?

MYSTICAL CHAINS
After moving and before attacking, if Ghost Rider is unengaged, you may choose a small, medium, or large figure within 3 clear sight spaces and place that figure adjacent to Ghost Rider. If Ghost Rider is engaged with exactly one figure, that figure cannot move out of the engagement with Ghost Rider.

PENANCE STARE 19
Anytime an opponent's Unique Hero destroys a figure you control with a normal or special attack, you may place the destroyed figure on the attacking Hero's Army Card. Instead of attacking with Ghost Rider, you may choose an adjacent Unique Hero. Roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to the roll for each figure that was placed on the chosen figure's card by this special power, up to a maximum of +4. If you roll 19 or higher, destroy the chosen figure.

AVENGING THE INNOCENT
Ghost Rider rolls an additional die when defending against Heroes that have one or more figures placed on their cards with the Penance Stare special power, or when attacking them with a normal attack.

SUPER STRENGTH

Mechanically, I think the way Penance Stare would end up working there would be that you could still place figures while Walking Danny is off the battlefield, but of course you can't start doing the active part and rolling for it until he's on the battlefield. Which actually feels like kind of a theme win to me. Sins count for the whole game, but it's easier to force close-quarters eye contact on foot.

The bonding with Johnny feels more expendable in this take, but if I did it, it'd probably be something like this:

SIBLING RIVALRY
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of a Johnny Blaze figure you control and taking a turn with Johnny Blaze, if Johnny Blaze did not destroy any figures this turn, you may take an immediate turn with this Ghost Rider. During this turn, Ghost Rider adds 2 to his Move number and rolls an additional attack die when attacking a figure adjacent to Johnny Blaze with his normal attack.

[Ronin]

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Captain America set.
Its model number and name are #014 / Luke Cage.

NAME = LUKE CAGE
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CRIME FIGHTER
PERSONALITY = CONFIDENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 250?

THUNDERBOLTS PROGRAM
At the start of the game, choose up to 4 Unique Heroes you control with the class of Creature, Criminal, Outcast, or Thief. Place a gray Nanite Marker on this Army Card and on each of their Army Cards. If an opponent would take temporary or permanent control of a figure with one of your Nanite Markers on its card, you may instead remove one unrevealed Order Marker from this card.

SUPERHERO HANDLERS
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of any Unique Crime Fighter Hero you control and before taking a turn with that Hero, you may take a turn with any Unique Hero you control that is within 5 clear sight spaces of that Crime Fighter and has a Nanite Marker on its Army Card. You may not take any additional turns with any other figures you control.

IMPENETRABLE SKIN
When Luke Cage defends against a normal or special attack, if at least one shield is rolled, the most wounds Luke Cage can take from this attack is one.

SUPER STRENGTH

Bio - After Steve Rogers took over as America's top cop, he also took over the Thunderbolts program that Norman Osborn had been misusing as his own personal wetworks team. Steve Rogers picked Luke Cage to be the new head of the Thunderbolts program. Luke Cage's reformed Thunderbolts centered around giving criminals a real shot at turning their lives around, like Cage himself had. Luke Cage's team included a mix of hardened criminals like Juggernaut and Mister Hyde, and some of the original Thunderbolts team who had since redeemed themselves: Songbird, MACH-V, and Fixer.

-------------------------------------------------

Notes - Kind of a "good guy Amanda Waller" riff going here, which is very deliberate. Worth noting that there is actually a strong Creature presence on Luke Cage's T-Bolts team (Hyde and Man-Thing both, as well as a couple characters who might not quite qualify as Creatures themselves, but should have Creature synergies, in Satana and Troll).

Juggernaut is technically the only Outcast on the T-Bolts, but I really want him in there badly. He's way too important to Jeff Parker's run to leave out, and most of the Outcasts have wound up in government service or otherwise forced into being good guys at some point anyhow.

Luke is actually a pretty long ways out on my radar, but he's definitely something I have planned long-term that I'm going to be designing a few other things around (namely the un-designed members of Luke Cage's T-Bolts). I wanted him posted so that I'd have the context of what I was planning here to reference.

Exactly what I'm doing with his leadership is pretty flexible, since I won't be tackling him for a while, but I am trying to avoid classic/strtaightforward OM hubs for the Thunderbolts as a general design goal. I also want him to encourage mixing Crime Fighters with his criminal classes, though. That much is a definite.

Oh, and minor theme note on why he gets a Nanite Marker for himself: pretty much entirely because of this scene.

[dok]

With all the 300+ Creatures, plus Juggernaut and Magneto2 (and all the other mutants, via Magneto2), plus the ability to lead with Spider-Man as the OM hub and keep Cage in reserve, it's a very powerful bonding build. Probably not over top of ProfX or Ms Marvel or Robot, but powerful.

The other obvious approach is Cage, Star-Lord, and a sampling 2-4 heroes from the other classes eligible for markers. You can even tiptoe around human if you want to save it for something (Cap, maybe).

[Ronin]

I wish I had another way of getting Juggernaut in there without also getting every Mutant ever. An alternate route might be a Juggernaut II, but I'm not sure what angle to approach a Juggernaut II from. (And if anything I'd think a Juggs II would be Excalibur focused)

I suppose the power could specify Human Outcast, but that's oddly specific.

Star-Lord could be cut out if necessary, by making Luke Cage a Leader instead of a Crime Fighter. Probably more accurate, though it would make him less Songbird friendly (and slightly complicate the wording for his bonding power).

Good to hear it's not into broken territory, though.

[dok]

I don't think it's worth making him a Leader just to avoid Star-Lord. It's on the strong side of Star-Lord builds because of the easy bonding, but still not near the top. There's only a handful of eligible figures (non-Mutate Criminal/Thief/Creature/Outcast) that have special use for Star-Lord's bonuses, and with a few exceptions (Blob, I guess) most of them are not on the high side of the power curve. Cage + Star-Lord + Blob + Shocker + Parasite + Dragon-Man is cool but doesn't scream power-build to me.

The Cage + Spidey + (300 point creatures to fit points limit) build, or something like Cage + Spidey + Mag2 + Cable, both seem more worrying on paper. With those builds it's still not something you couldn't have ever done before; Captain Britain and Ms. Marvel can both bond with Cable after all, and Frank can bond with all those beefy creatures. It's more the flexibility of the bonding (no movement/engagement rules, backup bonding hero built in) that makes it seem strong at first glance.

[Lazy Orang]

I think he looks really, really cool - should be able to get some fun armies built around him, and it'll be really cool to see him (sooner the better, but then I'd say that about plenty of your designs. ) I think that if it's OP it shouldn't be too hard to turn down how the bonding works.

~ Lazy Orang, who likes seeing Outcast on there - it almost feels like a nice way of getting that Marvel criminal theme in there (even though most of them are Mutant, plenty, like Blob/Pyro etc. are basically Mutant criminals, in a way) in a similar way to how Outlaw and Rogue get the theme across for DC on Waller. Creature seems a bit weirder to me, but hey, if it fits, it fits, and on top of the big creatures that could be being thought of when it comes to balance, it'll be a nice boost to some lower level Creatures who don't necessarily work brilliantly with Franky (Vermin, Blanka, Werewolf etc.).