Moriko seems a little overpriced vs. NotNW

[Hero Hot Hatch]

Moriko looks great and I'll use her a few times. However, if I want ninjas consistently in my armies and have to draft either the 110 NotNW squad and 110 Moriko, the NotNW squad seems to have the edge.

1. Risk diversification and better defense: excess skulls are wasted on one single NotNW, while they would take lives out of Moriko. Also, three usually last longer than one with only 4 lives. She has 4 lives and 4 defense die, but that's not enough when compared to "Disappering Ninja" and the tactical advantages that power provides like being able to get out of range at times, etc.
2. Attack diversification and better attack: the NotNW will be able to attack figures that are not adjacent to one another as Moriko will have no choice so if nothing else is adjacent, her multi-attack capability ("Saber Storm") is useless under those circumstances(enemies are not always adjacent to each other). Moreover, at full potential the NotNW will have 3 attacks of 4 dice or 3X4 (or 3X5 with height advantage). That is better than either 3X2 or 2X3 or 1X4 (or 1X5 with height advantage). Even at 66.7% capacity the NotNW's 2X4 (or 2X5 with height advantage) is superior to 2X3 or 1X4 (or 1X5 with height adavantage). They can select who to attack as well if the enemy figures are more than two spaces away.

The only real advantage that Moriko has is that as long as she is alive she is at full potential. Although SAs nullify "Disappering Ninja", one single NotNW is very likely to outlast Moriko due to "Disappering Ninja" and still have 1X4 (or 1X5 with height advantage) attack. Moriko might shine against an army with lots of SAs because the NotNW would not have that advantage, but she would still lose lives to excess skulls.

In short for 110 points the NotNW should outlast and outattack Moriko on average and against armies with low or no SAs. They also have more tactical flexibility when "Disappearing Ninja" works like trying to get out of range, etc. Don't forget that Phantom Walk = Ghost Walk + Disengage.

What do you guys think? I think that Moriko should be worth just under 110 for me to choose her instead of the NotNW if I am after point optimization. However, I will still play her simply because she is so cool. I simply wish that she had the "Disppearing Ninja" power in a diminished capacity even if she would cost 120 or so.

[Cavalier]

What do I think? I think this should be merged with the existing Moriko thread.

[Hero Hot Hatch]

Originally Posted by Cavalier

What do I think? I think this should be merged with the existing Moriko thread.

I wrote something similar down there and got almost no feedback. That's Moriko's thread. This is Moriko Vs. NotNW thread.

[playa1]

I think this is a very well-thought out analysis (that would go unnoticed within the context of Moriko's thread). I would have thought that since Moriko has 4 life, she has an advantage over the squad (but excess skulls are a pretty common occurence). I like her high regular attack, but never thought her special was that great (without range, she ain't no Q9 knockoff). In light of Hero's thread, it seems that Moriko should be a second pick behind the Northern Wind Squad and only used in a large Ninja-themed army.

[NecroBlade]

I have to agree, that next to the NotNW she really seems to be lacking. I'd take them over her any time I had the option. Then again I'm a sucker for balancing heroes and squads, range and melee in my armies, so if I need a melee fighter at that cost, I might go with her. She's still not that great at 110 points, though, IMO.

[Taeblewalker]

I can see her being more useful in situations where she has to defend a two-or-three-hex-wide corridor against swarms. She can potentially find positioning, needing only one open space.

I can also see how she would shine if you needed her to ride Theracus or get summoned by Saylind out to the front line (or back to the start zone). She is easier to move with special powers and glyphs, such as the Glyph of Erland.

Finally, there are situations where Phantom Walk only allows one figure to realistically find an open space (say, on a bridge). Two of three Ninjas can get bottle-necked where one Ninja hero can get through.

[Aldin]

Between the extra defensive die, extra life and Special Attack (not to mention better resistance to figs like Braxas - I'll take Moriko. NotNW somehow never live up to their potential when I draft them. With more and more ranged Specials, I expect them to have an even harder time doing so. Moriko, otoh, takes Special and normal attacks both in stride while being on the other side of that fascinatingly observed 4 defensive die phenomonon where you almost always seem to get that shield for four dice even though three seem to fail too often.

~Aldin, giving one man's opinion

[killercactus]

They only real advantage Moriko does have is she has a Special Attack, which can get around some defensive abilities (Like Disappearing Ninja, for example ). If you need someone that can run through Rats, and cut them up as she goes along while preventing Scatter, Moriko's your girl. If not, I'll take the Ninjas as well.

[theodorelogan]

Have to agree with Aldin.

NotNW are those units that you want SO BAD to really kick ass. But they almost never live up to how sweet the COULD be.

With the extra defense, and four life, Morike is likely to stay alive longer, I think. That, and that her attack is a special attack, makes me prefer her.

I won't stop playing with NotNW though. They just look SO sweet!

[playa1]

I have had pretty good luck with NotnW. I think the key is not to depend on their special ability always working. Using them as cleanup always seems to work for me. Also, quick attack without the expection to last long. I have had them disappoint me, but I also had them stay tenaciously on the board for a good long while.

I once had a very long game where My ninjas were my final units and my enemy lost everything except the marros clones. The game lasted another three or four rounds as he kept cloning and I kept disappearing. The ninjas finally came out on top after two failed cloning rolls in a row. fun stuff

[Hero Hot Hatch]

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker

I can see her being more useful in situations where she has to defend a two-or-three-hex-wide corridor against swarms. She can potentially find positioning, needing only one open space.

I can also see how she would shine if you needed her to ride Theracus or get summoned by Saylind out to the front line (or back to the start zone). She is easier to move with special powers and glyphs, such as the Glyph of Erland.

Finally, there are situations where Phantom Walk only allows one figure to realistically find an open space (say, on a bridge). Two of three Ninjas can get bottle-necked where one Ninja hero can get through.

Very interesting value added to the discussion.

Like Aldin and KillerCactus mentioned above, Moriko's Special Attack can be handy against figures like the NotNW themselves or the WoAs, which will be used a lot this summer with the new elves. It generally comes down to the application and purpose. So again it is important to consider what kind of attack your enemy has or what kind of defense that could be overriden with a Special Attack. I guess now that we have to agree that the drafting decision depends on other factors like those mentioned here.

An application for which the NotNW will be better than Moriko could be to take down a squad of 4th Mass if you are out of range units. The NotNW are more likely to survive than Moriko. "Disappearing Ninja" as a probability of 45%. That's very close to 50% of half of the time on average. You can't deny the awesomeness, and I take that over an extra defense die any time. It has worked for me many times. Moriko will still suffer loss of lives from excess skulls. If the "Disappearing Ninja" power is used to its full potential when successful, the NotNW can manage to get out of range at times and avoid the full force of a well-positioned 4th Mass for instance.

[spiteofthedice]

I'm not so sure about her either, but . . .

For one thing, she will be capable of causing major trouble among Kaptain Katsuro's troops. Just picture her phanting and storming her way through Ashigaru to get to the Kaptain and then hitting him with 3x2 or 4+whatever boosts she might accumulate (height, Finn, etc.) Otherwise, she might find some minimal success as an assassin of certain "hang-back" figures like Raelin, Taelord, Alastair, etc. Aside from that, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not hugely confident in her.