Justice League Design *Brainstorming*

[japes]

Originally Posted by Drewman-chu

I think it could work but I am a team card kind of guy. Team stickers sound even cooler but I like stickers or at least I used to when I was a kid. You may be able to get some traction here if you bring it up again after this new direction is fleshed out a little bit.
Thanks for the input. An outside perspective from a top notch supers custom designer is really beneficial. Please continue to chime in.

Thanks Nado for the support. The thing is I really don't have a hat to throw into this race. I have never been part of CG3 nor really had that as a goal. I have really enjoy all their cards and support the top notch quality of their cards but my vision of Superhero custom cards differed from theirs early on. I just found the found this whole thread and debate very interesting and would like to see everyone come together with a good solution. If people really are interested in a unbiased view or critique, I would be happy to post any I thought could help. I definitely have a different take on all this but I am not sure that it is one that people even want to hear. I only see two good solutions.

By all means post away. Any new perspectives can't hurt.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

If that is what the veto was really all about then I'd done working on this.

Not sure I follow this ... are you thinking johnny vetoed the markers because he had designs on a Batman 3.0 that led the Justice League? Because I can promise you (having access to everything posted in the Inner Sanctum) that's definitely not the case. As far as I can tell, johnny wanted to make sure that if we created a team concept for the Justice League that it felt like its own thing and was unique and fun enough to be worthy of a team he cares about as much as he does. High bar, but I think we're in the process of clearing it.

I asked in the other thread, but it's worth asking now, as I think we're considering cutting short the discussion of markers and glyphs, does the public support the idea of the individualized synergies based on class that we've been discussing here most recently? Four of four Heroes who posted on it in the other thread appeared to be offering it support and just wanted us to refine the powers. Are those of you in the trenches with us in support as well?
@dok @Yodaking @Tornado @laughing matter @japes @Spidey'tilIDie @anybody else who wants to comment!

It'd be good to know that we have the support of everyone (or at least the majority) of folks who are passionate about this before we proceed and work to really refine the cards and power sets themselves.

[Arkham]

I'm not sure if this direction has lost the interest of @Yodaking or if there's something going on that I'm unaware of in regards to a Batman III design. Is johnny jockeying for leading a Batman III design, or was Tornado's comment just a simple remark about johnny finally gaining interest in the direction?

As far as I'm concerned, I'll be running with Martian Manhunter II, Yoda with Batman III, and bsBush with Cyborg II as originally planned. Then my next priority would be Fate, so on and so forth.

If there is any issue you have with this direction Yoda, please voice them.

[johnny139]

Let it be known I have no interest or intentions as to designing any versions of any of the characters being discussed.* I have a lifetime of designs to work through... why run any JL designs myself when I can foist it onto you schmucks?

*Except for a The Dark Knight Returns Batman I have drafted! But even he's way down my list...

[Yodaking]

I have mixed feelings on the recent direction, I think I would need to see it more fully fleshed out before I could say I'm fully on board. So by all means continue to brainstorm and refine the idea just like we did with the class system. I grew to like the 'class' system more and more as it went along. No harm done in fully fleshing out this 'team powers' system. It gives us one more concept to consider and compare to the 'class' & 'marker' systems.

As far as cutting the 'marker' system discussion short, I think that would be a disservice to those we asked to wait to discuss that system until after we finished the 'class' system discussion. It seemed to me we have a few very passionate supporters of a 'marker' based system. The idea of presenting 2-3 different well defined systems for a group vote or poll still seems like the best way to go here. The 'marker' system has already had quite a bit of discussion on it, the set up we started with used markers after all and was the product of a lot of discussion in the public design thread. So it shouldn't take too much effort to refine what we had before into something that might meet the needs of 3 of the 5 heroes.

[Tornado]

I will support anything the group agrees on or at least a majority will support.

[IAmBatman]

Fair enough. This is why I wanted to ask the public members as well. The enthusiasm from the Heroes for the "Team Powers" system (I can roll with that title) was enough to, I think, satisfy my and Sock's goals, but I'm happy to take the time to refine it a bit more (hopefully with your help and input, Yodaking!), and then move on to discussing the Markers fully. And if there's desire, we can continue and do the same with the Glyphs as well (though I think this does close enough to the same thing with a lot of the benefits the Glyphs don't have).

[Arkham]

I agree. It'd be unfair to cut things off and not give the others a chance.

Right now we have the Change Class system we worked out. We can spend time fleshing out whatever we want to call this version of a class system. Then we can do the marker direction once dok is back, since he was one of the main supporters of that. As far as the glyphs, I think this new spin on the class system essentially combines the glyph concept, with a class execution, so there's really no need for that, unless anyone objects(Bats, Tornado, and I were the main proponents of that direction, and I think we're all into this version).

With that said, I'll keep the Change Class system unchanged in the OP, and we can open up on whatever we want to call this. We seem to already have a solid foundation that has the hero approval, so it's really just down to finding the most interesting and exciting bonuses to dish out. I encourage you to offer up ideas and suggestions Yoda, because if there's anything proven thus far with the turn around we all had with how the Change Class system came about, it's that the more you help and contribute with said direction, the more it becomes something you're behind.

[IAmBatman]

Four goals that I have for this "Team Powers" concept, Sock:

1. Elegance (try not to overload powers with text or things you have to remember; try to keep effects fairly brief)
2. Fun (make effects interesting and dynamic; some once per game, some once per round, some all game seems like it'd be fun)
3. Encompassing (This has to be well-balanced with point #1, with point #1 superseding it, but I think we want to try to encompass as much of the iconic JL as we can to really meet our goals).
4. Consistency (I think keeping as consistent as we can with power text will really help the end user remember things better and help the cards appear more elegant. An example of this in just a sec here ....).

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

JUSTICE LEAGUE TACTICS
If you only have Unique Heroes in your Army, before rolling for initiative you may choose one of the following to take effect this round:

• Officers and Scientists you control may attack with their normal attack at any point before, during, or after their move as long as they are on a space where they could end their movement.
• When a Warrior you control destroys an enemy figure, you may take one additional turn with a Warrior you control.
• If an Archer or Magician roll the 20-sided die, you may add 1 to the roll.

Cool power for sure (though I personally would love to see it be +2 for Archers and Magicians as I think the super limited Classes would not make it game-breaking at all).


Here's what I mean by consistent: you list Officers and Scientists for the first power, a Warrior for the second power, and an Archer or Magician for the third power. That's two classes, one class, and two classes. I'd rather see it be two, two, two.


Luckily, I have a great suggestion for who to pair with Warriors for exactly that power: Protectors!

Sure it brings Angel back into the fold, but how often do you actually destroy figures with Angel? Red Tornado has a much better chance of getting real use out of the power. Sure, other figures like Colossus, Falcon, and so forth will compete for the spot, but Red Tornado at least feels on even ground with them, without an A+ figure dominating the field.


Also, after reading the Hero comments, I think we can (and should) get away with just having all of those powers active all the time. Make the restriction having one Order Marker on the Army Card that has the Tactics Special Power on it instead and I think the theme still comes across just fine.

[IAmBatman]

Oh, it's worth asking now: what are we thinking for the classes of Martian Manhunter 2.0, Cyborg 2.0, and Batman 3.0?

If we're wanting to maximize synergy crossover (which I like), I'd suggest: Champion, Scientist, and Vigilante.

I know Strategist has been thrown around for Batman 3.0, but, really, if he's in an army with Black Canary and Robin and Robin can act as a Sidekick for Black Canary but not Batman, that'll just feel like a theme fail to me. I think he's still a Vigilante when he's a League Member, the same way Black Canary is. Also, if he's not a Vigilante, he can't use the Shuriken Utility Glyph to its fullest, which would also be a theme fail for me.

[Arkham]

That wasn't my latest example of how to approach the powers, I dropped the d20 boost from Batman. I think it was stated that some powers should encompass more than just 2 classes etc. So I figured why not give Martian Manhunter the d20 boost exclusively, but cover 3 classes. I agree with everything except the consistent class number for each power, as well as the Order Marker on the card restriction.

If you need an Order Marker on the card of that figure, you're really making it difficult to gain the benefits of each card. I feel that would really make playing any figure offering out the bonuses, difficult to be played together. I think most would just want to dump an X on Cyborg for his Repair, that means you'll have to hope when the actual power would be most useful, a marker is on that card by that point. If they are already once per round or once per game etc., an Order Marker shouldn't be necessary. Now, if it's all the time power, than yeah, maybe having that would help for that specific thing.

As for the class number, it's nice to try and keep consistent, but with Martian Manhunter's d20 boost, it's essential to cover the appropriate classes with it IMO, and not waste it on 2 separate figure's offerings with this new direction.

[Arkham]

Champion, Scientist, Vigilante is fine for those 3. It'll be tough to bring every character into the mix though with the given powers. Someone like Fate likely isn't going to be able to fit under any of those pre-set ones.

Here's what I'd personally do:

Martian Manhunter II:

JUSTICE LEAGUE SUPPORT
If you only have Unique Heroes in your Army, you may use each of the following:

• Once per round if a King, Archer, or Magician you control rolls the 20-sided die, you may add 2 to the roll.
• Once per round if an opponent successfully rolls to take control of any Champion, Warrior, or Officer you control, their turn immediately ends.
• Once per game when defending against a non-adjacent attack with a Vigilante, Scientist, or Archer you control, one shield will block all damage.

Batman III:

JUSTICE LEAGUE TACTICS
If you only have Unique Heroes in your Army, you may use each of the following:

• Once per round when an Officer, Mystic, or Protector you control destroys an enemy figure, you may take one additional turn.
• Once per game when attacking an adjacent figure with a Champion, Warrior, or Officer you control, all blanks rolled count as skulls.

Cyborg II:

JUSTICE LEAGUE STRATEGY
If you only have Unique Heroes in your Army, you may use each of the following:

• Once per round after an opponent reveals an Order Marker, you may immediately move each Vigilante, Archer, and King you control up to 4 spaces. Moved figures will not take any leaving engagements.
• Once per game you may add 2 to your initiative roll for each enemy figure adjacent to a Champion, Warrior, or Scientist you control.

It's uniform with "Once per round" powers being listed before "Once per game". I tried keeping the amount of classes being uniform for each power on that person's card.