Vigilante vs Crime Fighter...

[japes]

So I've been wondering lately about what do you classify as a difference between the two. I see them the same really but the issue is more that most Vigilantes are DC and most Crime fighters are Marvel with a few exceptions.

For instance Blue Beetle I think is the only DC Crimefighter and
Daredevil, Echo, Nomad, Punisher are the only Marvel Vigilante.

More-so most of the Synergies for Vigilante's are on DC cards and More Crimefighters are Marvel. The thing that bugs me is that if Daredevil was a Crimefighter instead of a Vigilante he'd work with Luke Cage and company which would be fitting.

SOOOO...thematically what is the difference between Crimefighter and Vigilante. If not much is the answer perhaps we should steer our designs Marvel vs DC in that direction going forward and as a sub question...for home use only does anyone think that Daredevil's cost would be impacted if he was a Crimefighter?

[Arkham]

It is odd. A bit broader classing would likely avoid such odd exclusions, and would allow greater inclusion when calling out to specific classes. I mean, aren't all Heroes Crime Fighters/Vigilantes for the most part?

If it makes you feel any better, I did have some ideas for a Daredevil II design, in which he would be a Crime Fighter.

[johnny139]

In my mind, a Vigilante works at night while a Crime Fighter works all day. I think Silver Age Batman would qualify as a Crime Fighter, as would Mark Waid's Daredevil. Symbiote Spider-Man should probably be a Vigilante.

As time went on though, we mostly went synergistically. Batman is the ur-Vigilante, Spidey is the ur-Crime Fighter. Their webs have evolved out of who would work with whom.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

In my mind, a Vigilante works at night while a Crime Fighter works all day. I think Silver Age Batman would qualify as a Crime Fighter, as would Mark Waid's Daredevil. Symbiote Spider-Man should probably be a Vigilante.

As time went on though, we mostly went synergistically. Batman is the ur-Vigilante, Spidey is the ur-Crime Fighter. Their webs have evolved out of who would work with whom.

to pretty much all of this. Disagree on Symbiote Spider-Man specifically, but on the broad points I'm with johnny. There's just a hair of a "darker" feeling to the vigilantes.

Originally Posted by Arkham

If it makes you feel any better, I did have some ideas for a Daredevil II design, in which he would be a Crime Fighter.

I've definitely thought that before that it would be cool to have a yellow costume version of Daredevil that was a Fighter. (or maybe a Crime Fighter, I guess, but his boxing ties give some real thematic weight to just Fighter, I think) Never really felt like I had a good enough take to tackle it, but that's something I'd love to see.

[Lazy Orang]

I tend to think of them tonally - Vigilantes are the darker feeling characters, Crime Fighters are the lighter feeling characters, if that makes any sense. After all, the Dark Knight has a distinct feel to him that's very much different from Spider-Man, even though their roles are technically the same.

~Lazy Orang, who has a Symbiote Spidey planned, originally as a Vigilante, but people had an issue with that, so I changed him to a Loner.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Ronin.

[japes]

Yeah I tend to think of it the same as most here with Vigilante being more "dark" but by definition (and C3G terms) they are essentially the same. For instance, Spider-Man is just as wanted by the police as Batman and as time goes by more "good buys" start looking the other way.

I do think of Crime Fighter's more in the Scooby-Doo, Spider-man and his Amazing Friends, Superfriends sort of style normally but in C3G Crimefighters team up with Spidey and Luke and Vigilantes are the Batman family.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

It is odd. A bit broader classing would likely avoid such odd exclusions, and would allow greater inclusion when calling out to specific classes. I mean, aren't all Heroes Crime Fighters/Vigilantes for the most part?

If it makes you feel any better, I did have some ideas for a Daredevil II design, in which he would be a Crime Fighter.

On one hand yeah a Daredevil Crime Fighter would be great but on the other...for me the current Daredevil teaming with Luke and Spidey to take on Kingpin and some criminals is awesome as is (if current DD was a CF). Not sure what I'd actually change.

[Lazy Orang]

Is there anyone who could thematically have a 'recruit Vigilantes to be Crime Fighters' power, or even vice versa? Shouldn't be OP, neither is a super strong synergy.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

On one hand yeah a Daredevil Crime Fighter would be great but on the other...for me the current Daredevil teaming with Luke and Spidey to take on Kingpin and some criminals is awesome as is (if current DD was a CF). Not sure what I'd actually change.

I wouldn't change the current Daredevil, he's actually one of my favorite designs.

I'd represent his abilities/powers in a different way, as well as represent things that weren't on the original card, then put Crime Fighter/Fighter as his class. I've been busy with other designs, so it's been buried for now, but I do have some powers written out that were rough versions of what I wanted.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Is there anyone who could thematically have a 'recruit Vigilantes to be Crime Fighters' power, or even vice versa? Shouldn't be OP, neither is a super strong synergy.

I don't think it's necessary for most things. I think in cases where it really works thematically that you want both, it's pretty straightforward to just name both, like Kick-Ass.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I don't think it's necessary for most things. I think in cases where it really works thematically that you want both, it's pretty straightforward to just name both, like Kick-Ass.

Yeah if Luke Cage named both it wouldn't have been an issue but adding Vigilantes to Luke Cage may have impacted his cost whereas I don't think Current Daredevil as a Crime Fighter would have been a big difference.

With the exception of K-A giving both...

All Vigilante Synergies come from Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, and Lady Shiva.

The only Crime Fighter Synergy I can think of is Luke Cage so it may be as simple as having a Crime Fighter that works with Vigilantes so you have a reason to put Punisher and Daredevil in an army with Luck Cage and Spider-Man

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I wouldn't change the current Daredevil, he's actually one of my favorite designs.

Same here that's why I brought up this discussion as I like the current design and wouldn't change it but wish he was a Crime Fighter.