Proto's Maps--Ruins and Springs, New 10/24

[Andyman is back]

Okay cool, is POG getting a remake, because i have a suggestion

[ProtoFury]

Maybe, I don't know. More playtesting will help decide whether it stays on the good list as-is (unlikely), gets revamped or remade (probably), or put into the "other stuff" category (maybe). It's all already outlined in the post where I detailed the updates to all the maps; reading is good for you.

What's the suggestion?

[ProtoFury]

Alright, round one of updates is (tentatively) finished. First up, a welcome revamp of Ecdinox Pass.

Ecdinox Pass (BoV Edition) V6.0

Last Version


New Version

Larger Image

After trying a few different version of an Ecdinox Pass remake, I ended up ditching the first (it was a complete overhaul) since it was too different. I hit it good with the second one, in which I kept the top three layers of the mountain, cut the height, and used the extra tiles to expand what was previously a very cramped map.

-Reconstructing the sides of the map (the sandbars) to allow better access to the cliffs
Fix: I reconstructed... most everything besides the mountain pass. So yeah, fixed. Lots of space now, side access for melee and also much better roadwork for troop movement.
-Minor tweaks to the bridge area to allow easier access and incentives to take the path under it
Fix: Instead of making a better path under the bridge, I got rid of it completely, since it was rarely used. Instead, I added said side-routes in the map that are relatively flat. I added in one hex on the inside of the rock bridges one level lower instead, for Glyph placement.
-Potential Glyph placement on the currently Glyph-less map
Fix: Glyphs (shuffled, Astrid and Gerda) placed on the little inner cliff-rocks described above, which can be seen in the picture (middle of the rock bridge on the inside wall). Small and Medium single-space figures should have no problems sitting on the Glyph. Glyphs are vulnerable to height from most everywhere nearby.


Those are the updates for Ecdinox Pass; comments, questions, and criticism are welcome as usual. I'll give it a day or two before I post build instructions, just to make sure I'm completely happy with this version of the build.

Next up is Dormos Springs--updates so far haven't been too extensive, but dramatically change the gameplay. Expect that soon.

[Son of Arathorn]

Looks good . I just built Del-Nilaff Ruins, and I gotta say it looks great. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to play on it yet, but I'm aiming for tonight.

[ProtoFury]

Thanks, Aragorn! I'm glad you liked the Ruins, it was a map I had made based on specs and a concept given by Andyman up here before he got banned the first time. I only played on it once, so you'll have to let me know how your matches go.

[Son of Arathorn]

Alright. The game on Del-Nilaff is finally done. Couple of key points on this map-
A) The game took a while. Easily one of the longest games I've played with armies in this price range. I like that.
B) This thing is complex when it comes to strategy, another plus. I had to work hard to keep control of both hills, which was key to my victory. The bridge only came into play a few times, but it did it's job well, allowing fast transport of troops from 1 hill to the other.
C) The towers made me a bit itchy, as I generally thought them to be too... covered with ruins, giving more cover to range against any range advancing up the hill. However, the ranged units I stuck in the tower to my left had to come down in order to get a clear line of sight, which is another great thing about this map.
D) The road/wall walk triple hexes on height with the battlements are a huge risk. I could send a three-man squad up there, and they'd hold the line for 2 and a half rounds. Then I'd send more units, and they would be swamped by the enemy.
E) Glyphs on this map definitely helped me win, but they on a scale of 1-10, 1 being total flops, 10 being game-changers that nobody likes to play with, I'd call these 2.5-3. Just right. Raneveig came into play a lot, but Gerda really saved me a couple times. They weren't so important I'd toss more than a couple squaddies at them, which was good, because I needed numbers to hold the hills.
F) The water around the bridge/hills/glyphs was a very positive aspect of gameplay, and definitely kept people from charging the bridge. Good stuff.
Overall, I really like this map. OM management is tricky on it though, even with armies of only a few cards, because knowing which area needs support is a killer. It looks great, it plays great, and I enjoy the set pint totals. Two thumbs way up!

[ProtoFury]

Thanks for the review, Arathorn! I'm a little surprised it went over so well in your match--I made that before I paid much attention to actual competitive design in maps, and honestly didn't spend much time on it. I chalk it up with several other of my early maps that were... less than great (essentially most of the ones in my Large category). So, I guess I lucked into it a bit. Either way, I'm glad I've gotten good feedback for it, and I may go back and revamp some of my bigger maps based on the fact that you liked it so much. Plenty of those early ones were just ones I made IRL for fun and then put into VS, but it would be fun to go back and make them more playable.

Either way, you may have just convinced me to play one of my own maps

[ProtoFury]

More updates!

Ecdinox Pass V6.1


After doing more work with the newest version of Ecdinox Pass, I noticed a few flaws--minor issues, but ones that needed to be addressed--and fixed things accordingly. I'm comfortable enough with the current version that I've put it up in the OP. A few more pictures and the PDF instruction file is available now, so go check it out!


Dormos Springs
(Original Version)


I've been reworking Dormos Springs as much as possible without going into a complete overhaul (as I'd said, I need more playtesting to tell if a complete overhaul is necessary), and I've come up with a few different start zone ideas. I'm unsure about which, so I figured I'd post both.

First, the one with a more typical start zone placement, akin to the originals:


And second, a more experimental one with a few start zone spaces starting out on height:


I like the idea of the few spaces for each team on height, which gives more choice for start zone placement, and offers some interesting play in regards to giving a few units early height, with quick access to each other. I worry it would be abused, but the closeness of those two start areas would allow a player to field a few melee units up there to easily take out an opponent's ranged.

It'd be sort of a risk/reward thing for a player to field units up there, but I have yet to tell whether it would indeed be too easy for people to abuse. It would drive some play to the top of the ruins though, which is an area I worry about seeing less play. A small start zone there would make the area a playable spot right off the bat, and would drive traffic there (either through the road walkup or the ladders on the sides) if all of one player's troops were killed at the top, it would incentivize him or her to send more up to take out the remaining enemies on the top. We'll see.

And that's all for this update, more will becoming in the next few days. As always, feedback is welcome!

EDIT:
I've decided to put those three start zone spaces up on the top of he structure, but to keep someone from fielding certain units up there (aherm, dragons), I've split them up a bit. I'll have the update to Dormos Springs up tonight, along with another very slight update to Ecdinox Pass. If I'm good, I may also have a substantial update for Ruins of Dalpheda tonight, provided I get that finished.

[ProtoFury]

Alright, more new stuff. To start with, I just tweaked Ecdinox Pass a little more, nothing extreme. Playtests on it so far have gone well, and I'm looking forward to getting some more rounds on it this week. However, the big update is the two new overhauls that are finally done. First up, the one shown above--the finished-for-now revamp of Dormos Springs.

====================

Dormos Springs Version 1.5

Last Version


New Version


-Remodeling the area around the shuffled Glyphs
FIX: Increased the difficulty of reaching the Glyphs to prevent early disadvantages, added height around the Glyphs to allow attackers some bonus.
-Removing the two Glyphs on Rannveig, and placing one in an accessible area for both teams
FIX: There in only one Glyph of Rannveig, and it's under the bridge. Small/Medium figures can fit there to hold it.
-Rethink jungle bushes placement
FIX: Nothing was done to the bushes, but they may be tweaked after more playtesting.
-Tweak height variation
FIX: Height on the edges of the map has been changed to give players more choice and spice things up a bit bonus-wise. Height in the middle of the altar was removed to prevent overpowering some figures.

OTHER FIXES:
-Changed ruins position to provide better LOS-blocking from the altar. This allows for the players to have more interactions on the walkway, and provides cover late-game from units that have reached the altar.
-Updated start zones to allow for three single-spaced figures to be fielded on top of the altar right off of the bat. This allows the altar to see more play and drives some combat up there immediately. The height gives an early bonus to a few ranged figures, but the close proximity to the other player's raised start zones and lack of height variation on top of the altar allow for interesting placement of melee units on top as well. Unit placement on top of the altar becomes a good strategic issue for the player.

====================

Ruins of Dalpheda

Last Version


New Version


After going through a few different redesigns of the problem areas, I've hit on this, which maximizes both the usage of my limited available tiles and the playable space in the matches. The overall map retains much of the same feel, but the updates affect gameplay quite a bit.

-Adjustments to the road in the middle to force players to make more decisive movement choices
FIX: The middle roads were replaced by rock spaces. The player now has to decide whether to get the road bonus or go for the middle paths with the Glyphs.
-Adjustment of the hills on the edges to allow melee units better access to ranged attackers
FIX: The hills now have a path of road spaces going up them to give melee a speed bonus against ranged on height.

OTHER FIXES:
-Changed Glyph placement to the middle of the map. In order to drive traffic towards the middle of the map and to even up the turns needed to get to the Glyphs (the old placement heavily favored 6-movers over 5's and especially 4's), I stuck them in the middle. Not super sure on the placement here, but it should be an improvement. Playtests will shed some light on this one as well.

You can see the main changes (the road, glyph, and hill adjustments) in this shot here:

Larger Image

I'm still worried about the choked-nature of the middle of the map, which could be really problematic, despite the availability of the four different paths. Playtesting will most likely show how big of an issue this is, although I'm expecting a need to design at least one more path to alleviate this. If this is the case, I'll end up forcing myself into at least a decent-sized overhaul, since I've really stretched the available tiles as far as they'll go with this one. But I like where it's at now, so I'm putting it up.

====================

And that's all for today. As I said, I'll be play testing these three this week, and will start working on updating other maps. I'm not sure which one I'll start to fiddle with next... Monwhitt Ruins and Vadmont's Tomb are both ones I want to redesign really badly, so my goal this week may be one of those. Either way, stay tuned for more.

EDIT:
During playtesting, Ruins of Dalpheda has proven to be just as choked and claustrophobic in the middle as I was worried about, and other stuff (like the two glyphs in such close proximity) also threw the game off. I've overhauled the map again, this time completely redesigning much of the middle to get rid of the two thin middle paths in favor of a larger route through the map.

Also, I've redesigned Monwhitt Ruins--and note, it's a redesign, not an overhaul. I started from scratch, even with a different set of terrain (rather than RotV, FotA, and TTx2, I went with RotV, FotA, RttFF, and TT since TT's are notoriously hard to come by, and I'm probably better off making a map with one set of TT than two). So while it will keep the name, it will essentially be a completely new map, a spiritual predecessor more than a direct one. And, I may change the name a bit too, to differentiate the two a bit. Who knows.

However, despite having these two updates where I like them, I'm not going to post them just yet. One of my big problems with the way I used to make maps was I would just pump them out, without extensive playtesting (or hardly any, in plenty of cases). Because of that, the tournament-regulations maps were really hit-or-miss, with several being real misses. Plus, a lot of my old maps were made when I was still getting a handle on competitive play, and wasn't thinking through all of the details I do now. Since I'm changing the way I do things around here, I've decided to get my first small wave of maps reworked and tested, and then I'll shut down this thread in favor of a new one that's not bogged down by two years' worth of crap. I'll keep this one up as a sort of archives of my own work, but it will be nice to have a fresh start on a clean new thread, with just quality maps.

So look for that sometime soon. In the meantime, I will be focusing on the maps I'm working on now, but I'll be saving the goods for the new thread.

[michaeltaylor]

Great work! And I'd love to try to build the LOTR maps.

It looks like none of the 'download instructions' seem to work.

Are these available somewhere else?

thanks!

[BurnyFlame]

Does anybody have the PDF instructions on how to build ProtoFury's "Pass of Golgotha? We want to use it in a tournament next week.

Thanks!

[Yodaking]

It's too bad you lost the build directions to Gransoth Falls, that map looks pretty epic. How did figures move onto the separate small map?