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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
So its okay to punish all the crew and staff of the film who weren't involved in the film and have any sort of stake in the movie? Especially when royalties generally technically work off the play of the movie, not ticket sales. Like if they play a song at a football game, a person doesn't get money based on how many people are there. They get the same if 1 or 1,000,000 people are there. I'd wager movies don't work too much differently, and they play whether you are there or not.
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
As far as I'm concerned, whether he gets paid for it or not, it was consciously included by the people making the film, and it's intensely disrespectful.
Imagine you're one of the children he abused. Imagine you're one of their parents, or siblings - any of the people who care about them. Imagine you're one of those people, and you hear that this film's pretty good, so you go along... and you hear that song. Wouldn't you feel hurt, outraged? How is that not a kick in the teeth to everyone this man has hurt? This isn't like old media, or old footage, which already exists. This is a new piece of media being thoughtless enough to choose to make use of a song made by a man who has damaged the lives of children. It is disrespectful to the victims and unintentionally cruel to any of them who might see or hear of it. |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
I don't have a problem privately enjoying art made by bad people. Like, it turned out the author of Rurouni Kenshin is a pedophile, but I already bought the books years ago, so... am I gonna throw them away? Nah. I'm just not going to buy anything else from him, as long as he's alive and can benefit from it.
Actively seeking out morally reprehensible people's work and paying them money for it, in a world where there's essentially endless art and entertainment being created by non-reprehensible people, is hard to justify. Gary Glitter is probably (hopefully?) going to die in prison so I don't feel as bad as I would, say, going to see a Roman Polanski film. That dude is still living it up free and clear. But it's an ethical grey spot at bare minimum. JOHNNY139'S CLASSIC CUSTOM THREAD! | Visit now!
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
I generally take the stance of not being offended on behalf of someone I've never met. Also to the question "How is that not a kick in the teeth?" Because I'd wager a good portion of those people may not even recognize the artist of the song is the same person. I personally wouldn't track how someone who wronged me is doing in their career, so I generally wouldn't know their music or take much wffort in recognizing their voice. You're generally discounting the role of healing in the life of a person. Many don't spend their life reeling from anything associated with their traumatic experience, many heal, move on, and wouldn't be bothered by a song.
I don't disagree with the concept of "don't give known pedophiles money." I make enough DCS calls in my job to always be on board with that thought. But I also think its wrong to assume massive trauma response on what are likely adults seeing a movie that happens to include a song by a person sho harmed them. Resilience is a thing that people account for. Hell, if they're having a trauma response from that, maybe that'll encourage them to do some trauma work and find healing (which is by no means an endorsement). But of course I also didn't care for the soundtrack of the movie in general. |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
It sounds like he's already been tried and punished for his misdeeds in the court of law and that he only gets a massive payday based on DVD and soundtrack sales (so it'd be more effective to boycott those). If society's role is to prevent someone who's done bad things from ever earning money again, though, we should just outright kill those people. It's a lot more efficient (and not my personal opinion on how we should handle it, btw).
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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards. |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
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I would say that these articles are just examples of many more out there, all coming to similar conclusions. https://www.rainn.org/articles/adult...d-sexual-abuse https://www.iicsa.org.uk/publication...d-sexual-abuse https://www.acog.org/Clinical-Guidan...obileSet=false https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publication...sonal-outcomes https://www.survivorsintransition.co...-sexual-abuse/ You say that I'm assuming these people haven't moved past it. You're assuming that they have. You say that this might cause them to find a way to heal. You're ignoring the strong possibility that it could bring it all back and make it worse, even if they have got on with their lives. Sexual abuse, especially child sexual abuse, isn't something you 'get over'. It's something you find a way to live with, and this sort of thing makes it harder. What you all seem to have missed is that this isn't about the movie-goers, or the people who made it. This isn't even about Glitter himself. It's about his victims. "The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members." If we allow this to go by without taking some sort of a stand against it, we're failing the people who've suffered most. |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
I'll step in briefly. Someone picked it, specifically, went to get it all signed off. There are thousands upon thousands of other possible samples that could have been used. Didn't have to be him. We're not short of good people making music and films and art of all kinds. And if we avoid the terrible people? We'll set a better standard, and get better people.
Abuse is a widespread problem that affects many people (and this issue has affected people I'm close to), and bringing it up in a big film like this? That choice was beyond crass. I would expect more consideration. Aaaand stepping back out. Illustrator
Art blog: http://midnightillustration.blogspot.com Portfolio: http://midnightillustrationportfolio.blogspot.com My art on Instagram: https://instagram.com/midnightillustration |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
I never knew he was a pedophile, and actually wouldn't have even been able to know he did that song. I've heard it a lot but never cared who did it.
Have heard it a ton at sporting events. Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you ...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES 3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
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EDIT: Really my point here is this: I have no problem advocating for victims and hurt people. Generally encourage it. But if you're going to put legitimate effort into it, why not target that at something focused on benefiting and helping victims, rather than just trying to not hurt them? |
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
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I do believe that it's necessary to take a stand for people who haven't asked for it. Those are people without voices - if you only support or stand up for those who've been able to ask, you condemn the most vulnerable, frightened and crushed under members of society, those who have no voice and have no hope. Even aside from this specific discussion, that is an important point to note. Quote:
"Glitter, real name Paul Gadd, was convicted in 1999 for downloading thousands of images of child pornography, and was deported from Cambodia in 2002 on suspicion of child sexual abuse. He was jailed in Vietnam in 2006 for molesting two girls, and on his return to the UK was placed on the sex offenders' register for life. Then in 2015, Gadd was found guilty of attempted rape, several counts of indecent assault, and another count of having sex with a girl under the age of 13, and was sentenced to 16 years in prison." This is, comparatively, recent. Quote:
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout
I agree that boycotting this film would be a good thing but it doesn't take much from me to say that as this seems to be the sort of film I detest anyway. However, I have learned that you can't force others to have the same sense of morality that you do. You can only state your reasons for doing what you do and answer any questions others might have.
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