Competitive Unit Congress

[obfuscatedhippo]

Originally Posted by UberQ9

What metric is being used to judge whether a unit is "non-viable"? At first glance it appears that every unit on the non-viable list in the OP is rated C+ or lower on spider_poison and Jexik's power rankings with the exception of Ana Karithon, Kato Katsuro, and Ulginesh. If this is the case, which of the following units, if any, should be added to the list?

Spoiler Alert!

Agent Carr
Deadeye Dan
Deathstalkers
Deathwalker 8000
Deathwalker 9000
Doctor Doom
Dumutef Guard
Dzu-Teh
Elite Onyx Vipers
Evar Scarcarver
Frost Giant of Morh
Fyorlag Spiders
Gurei-Oni
Iskra Esenwein
Kee-Mo-Shi
Kumiko
MacDirk Warriors
Master of the Hunt
Mika Connour
Mind Flayer Mastermind
Morsbane
Ninjas of the Northern Wind
Obsidian Guards
Otonashi
Red Skull
Retchets of Bogdan
Sharwin Wildborn
Sujoah
Tarn Viking Warriors
Tornak
Tul-Bak-Ra
Valguard
Warden 816
Wolves of Badru

I'll also say that I don't think Ulginesh belongs on the non-viable list. The general consensus seems to be that the elf heroes team isn't the greatest, but that's less because of Ulginesh and more because of the relative unimpressiveness of his wizard buddies. When the wizards get better, Ulginesh will get better.

From your list, the few that I see needing the most assistance would be:


Evar Scarcarver
Gurei-Oni
Master of the Hunt
Mika Connour
Obsidian Guards


Evar has a cool concept but doesn't really see play in our area. Maybe a bump to Move 6, Attack 3 would help. That makes him a double-attack in melee before he gets rage infused.

Gurei is just not as good as Torin for just 20 more points. Maybe drop him to 80 points or make him Wild or a Wild Giant) for Deathchasers/Dreadguls {someone has a modification like that on their thread but I forget who}

Master of the Hunt is too expensive. I'd drop him to 110 points. You could drop the Javelin power and add something like Precision - targets do not receive additional defense dice from special powers, glyphs, terrain, or height advantage.

Mika needs to not take leaving engagements on her Shadow Dance and maybe add a third shadow tile.

Obsidian Guards are over-priced. Drop to 75 points and lose Water Weakness. This makes them on par with the Hornskull Brutes (4/4). It makes them very competitive on lava boards though.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by UberQ9

I'll also say that I don't think Ulginesh belongs on the non-viable list. The general consensus seems to be that the elf heroes team isn't the greatest, but that's less because of Ulginesh and more because of the relative unimpressiveness of his wizard buddies. When the wizards get better, Ulginesh will get better.

I agree. Ulginesh won't need any changes if the Elven Wizards are buffed (and honestly, with C3V's Haduc, I don't think many of them need to be changed, either). I think some minor buffs to Chardris to make him a viable option over Jorhdawn and to Emirroon to make him more useful are all that should be done for the Elves at this point. Morsbane and the rest don't really need any more help.

Originally Posted by obfuscatedhippo

Gurei is just not as good as Torin for just 20 more points. Maybe drop him to 80 points or make him Wild or a Wild Giant) for Deathchasers/Dreadguls {someone has a modification like that on their thread but I forget who}

I'm not a big fan of this change, although it would be a pretty simple fix. Changing the personality feels like it's changing the theme of a unit to me, especially when it's a shift from something like Tormenting to Wild, which each have different connotations. Changing his species to a Giant is also a step too far in my opinion (although I would love for the Dreadguls to have more bonding options), since he's clearly different from the other Giants that we've seen so far.

Honestly, I'd love to see him get Evil Eye Protection like Torin has. It gives him a niche to fill of protecting Einar units (and acts as a good way to cover one of the major shortcomings of the Samurai, although with CUC's Hatamoto Taro it'd undoubtedly be too strong) while still somewhat lining up with his original vision.

Master of the Hunt is too expensive. I'd drop him to 110 points. You could drop the Javelin power and add something like Precision - targets do not receive additional defense dice from special powers, glyphs, terrain, or height advantage.

I agree with a point drop, but I don't want to see Javelin completely dropped. Maybe changing the roll to occur before he moves (along with a price drop) would be enough to help him.

Mika needs to not take leaving engagements on her Shadow Dance and maybe add a third shadow tile.

I like both of these suggestions. My only qualm is that I only have access to one BftU set, so I don't have three shadow tiles to spare for her.

As for some of the other units on @UberQ9 's list...

Elite Onyx Vipers
I think that it was the CUA version that upped their base defense to 4 and changed Evasive 8 to Evasive 6, but this change seems perfectly acceptable to me. Every time that I've seen these guys in action, they have no problem engaging their targets, but they fail to kill them in one turn and promptly die the next. A respectable 4 defense would go a long way towards helping them.

MacDirk Warriors
A bump to 3 defense is all these guys need, in my opinion. They should still be more killable than the Knights of Weston, but the extra defense die should give them the edge they need to be more reliable.

Otonashi
Honestly, I don't want her to be buffed. We already have Isamu in the game, and with a surge of 10-point fillers being worked on for SoV, I think that he'll have enough competition elsewhere. She's also useful in a Command Courier build, where she'll almost always get the movement boost when you activate her.

Granted, none of the above applies in a Classic-only format, so for everyone who plays without VC units, I can see why buffing her would be appealing.