The Book of Atom Eve

[IAmBatman]

I think the marker removal for your own team is a lot of fun. I mostly used markers to heal and to bolster defense in my matches and I thought she was plenty fun. I also went for the defense subtraction a couple of times and it was pretty useful.

From my view, removing other Order Markers from enemy units is non-essential for fun. That said, it's not like the ability to do that doesn't already exist in the metagame (Zatanna).

[Lord Pyre]

She can't remove OM's, I assume that was a typo?

If you guys would rather nix the enemy marker removal than start over, it's fine. I think the design is a lot less interesting then, but I'd rather her be fun, than to be extra unique!

[IAmBatman]

Yes, it was a typo. Apologies. I just meant "markers" for that.

I'm OK either way, as it's not something I really tested and I found her plenty of fun and with a plethora of options anyway. Sounds like Ronin will be more sold on the design without that aspect, though, and that removing that aspect would nix the need for more testing.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Yes, it was a typo. Apologies. I just meant "markers" for that.

I'm OK either way, as it's not something I really tested and I found her plenty of fun and with a plethora of options anyway. Sounds like Ronin will be more sold on the design without that aspect, though, and that removing that aspect would nix the need for more testing.

Oh I don't mind more testing at all! Basically we're taking away the most exciting aspect of the design, in my opinion. Yes she'll still be useful and fun, but this part is unique, cool, and fits her character. But if it's going to be a constant fun fail, then I definitely don't want it in there (And would avoid it for all future designs too).

Basically I'm uneasy either way now. Not a good feeling!

[IAmBatman]

Well not completely unique (see aforementioned Zatanna (I) who can already do the trick). Maybe the thing to do is to get another tester to try out the combos we're worried will be fun fails and ask them to particularly pay attention to whether it creates an unfun gaming experience or not?

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Well not completely unique (see aforementioned Zatanna (I) who can already do the trick). Maybe the thing to do is to get another tester to try out the combos we're worried will be fun fails and ask them to particularly pay attention to whether it creates an unfun gaming experience or not?

She was grandfathered in before a lot of these other bonding units

Basically where I'm at now:
I could totally get more tests and "prove" her to be fine. But this is my biggest problem:

If I was using Eve in-house, I'd house-rule some limits on her marker removal into place (like keeping her from nuking Avenger Markers).

If you're going to house-rule a design, no matter what testing proves, then it's not okay. I don't want this released, someone reading this thread, and thinking "Yeah this design could be better with tweaks." That's not good game design.

I'd love some other Hero input here too.
@johnny139 @Karat @Lazy Orang @quozl @Tornado

[quozl]

I find messing with opponent's stuff very fun. She's a bit like The Mask. Just gotta make sure she doesn't make matchups totally lopsided.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by quozl

I find messing with opponent's stuff very fun. She's a bit like The Mask. Just gotta make sure she doesn't make matchups totally lopsided.

The concern is the opponent's feeling of fun playing against her. She's definitely fun, but does she make the game itself not fun?

[quozl]

Oh yeah, I find playing against that a lot of fun too. It's challenging and there's an amazing sense of accomplishment when you overcome things like that.

[Tornado]

A counter to some of the most powerful builds in C3G sounds like a good thing.
Is there anyone that starts or acquires a 'negative' marker that it would be beneficial to remove?

I think most of these concerns will play out in public testing.

[MrNobody]

Creeper and Genis-Vell could like some marker removal.

[Lord Pyre]

Molly Hayes also. Though I would probably never choose that as her option.