The Book of Raiden

[Lazy Orang]

Pathfinder Tanuki from Jungle of Despair.

[johnny139]

I like the tweaked Divine Intervention more - I like the idea of him appearing in a flash of lightning. No idea on the theme for most of his powers (I know he's a god type with lightning stuff) but he seems solid mechanically.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I like the tweaked Divine Intervention more - I like the idea of him appearing in a flash of lightning. No idea on the theme for most of his powers (I know he's a god type with lightning stuff) but he seems solid mechanically.

New Divine Intervention direction really sells the theme.

[Arkham]

Sounds like a winner.

As for his moves, a quick rundown:

Divine Intervention:
Raiden is the protector of Earth realm, usually just observes, letting Earth's warriors fight in the tournament, and he only gets involved when absolutely needed. He usually shows up in a bolt of lightning, as seen at the beginning of this:

YouTube

Displacer Teleport:
This is his iconic teleport in the games.

Thunder God:
This is supposed to mirror Thor to a degree, except using unblockables and based on ally deaths instead of a high d20 roll. Raiden going nuts on everyone surrounding with a lightning/electricity blast.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Sounds like a winner.

As for his moves, a quick rundown:

Divine Intervention:
Raiden is the protector of Earth realm, usually just observes, letting Earth's warriors fight in the tournament, and he only gets involved when absolutely needed. He usually shows up in a bolt of lightning, as seen at the beginning of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EROmqidZQc

Displacer Teleport:
This is his iconic teleport in the games.

Thunder God:
This is supposed to mirror Thor to a degree, except using unblockables and based on ally deaths instead of a high d20 roll. Raiden going nuts on everyone surrounding with a lightning/electricity blast.

I think you did a great job of translating his powers to the card! And kudos to you, I didn't see the similarity to God of Thunderstrike, but it's quite ingenious. My only question is: what if it's a better version? It's gonna feel really disappointing if this version is lots better than the one on Thor, especially if it's something they both do pretty equally.

[Arkham]

I wouldn’t say it’s better.

Thor can rolllout from the start of the game to attempt to use his to affect as many as possible. Raiden’s can only reach a potential 3 wounds on a figure, once there are 3 destroyed Unique Heroes in his army. By that time, the enemy has had time to completely spread out, prepare, and may not have as many targets to hit. Raiden’s also requires the X. Then it becomes a bit apples and oranges. Thor’s chances of success can be boosted, Raiden’s can’t. But Thor’s is all in one, 3 wounds or nothing vs. Raiden’s 0-3 wound possibility.

So to say one is “better”, just doesn’t seem feesible. Raiden’s is meant to give the player a feeling of more than just all or nothing, as I’m sure we’ve all been there and felt that disappointment. However, it’s still by no means a guarantee, and requires more factors to it to setup for maximum potential.

They’re similar in what they can accomplish, but it stops there.

[Lazy Orang]

This one looks better to me, but then God of Thunder Strike invariably does nothing for me, so...

[Arkham]

1. Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?
   No
2. Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?
   No
3. Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?
   No
4. Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?
   No
5. Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter [I], Green Lantern John, Angel)?
   No
6. Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?
   Other than his own potential double turn, no.
7. Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?
   No
8. Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?
   No
9. Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?
   N/A
10. If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?
    N/A
11. Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?
    It's encouraged you wait 'til the end, or near the end to bring him in, so that's where he'll be potentially most effective and where testing should focus.
12. Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?
    No
13. Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?
    No

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I wouldn’t say it’s better.

Thor can rolllout from the start of the game to attempt to use his to affect as many as possible. Raiden’s can only reach a potential 3 wounds on a figure, once there are 3 destroyed Unique Heroes in his army. By that time, the enemy has had time to completely spread out, prepare, and may not have as many targets to hit. Raiden’s also requires the X. Then it becomes a bit apples and oranges. Thor’s chances of success can be boosted, Raiden’s can’t. But Thor’s is all in one, 3 wounds or nothing vs. Raiden’s 0-3 wound possibility.

So to say one is “better”, just doesn’t seem feesible. Raiden’s is meant to give the player a feeling of more than just all or nothing, as I’m sure we’ve all been there and felt that disappointment. However, it’s still by no means a guarantee, and requires more factors to it to setup for maximum potential.

They’re similar in what they can accomplish, but it stops there.

To be clear, I wasn't saying it is better, I was asking, "What if it is?" For many of the reasons that you outlined, I think I prefer the power here, but that's probably because my experience is similar to Lazy's.

[Arkham]

If it's more reliable, then it's more reliable. If several of us have poor experiences with Thor's special not being very successful, thus anti-climactic, I'd rather not make Raiden's suffer the same issue, if not worse.

We'll see what the tests show.

[Arkham]

I propose we move to Initial Playtesting.

Tagging the Heroes just to make sure they've all seen the thread:
@japes
@johnny139
@Ronin
@Yodaking

[johnny139]

If his lightning storm is feeling too potent next to Thor's, I'd switch to mirroring his "3 wounds with a d20 roll," with the destroyed allies adding to the roll. I think it's a lot easier to tweak a d20 than combat dice.

Yea for testing to see how it feels.